[2014 Super Rugby] All Blacks Watch - Midseason

[austingtir]

I think Weepu could start showing some signs before the end of the season as his heart condition thing is pretty telling on why he's been a bit off the last season or two. Ellis will be very hard done by. And Peranara will be very very lucky if he gets anywhere near the AB's squad.

I give Anscombe almost no chance at all now and Slade the best chance of anyone getting that third flyhalf spot. IMO Hansen would be nuts not to give him another try pre 15 WC. I still think he's that Donald like player we need with loads of experience and solid skills.

 

[Shaggy]

I think Weepu could start showing some signs before the end of the season as his heart condition thing is pretty telling on why he's been a bit off the last season or two. Ellis will be very hard done by. And Peranara will be very very lucky if he gets anywhere near the AB's squad.

I give Anscombe almost no chance at all now and Slade the best chance of anyone getting that third flyhalf spot. IMO Hansen would be nuts not to give him another try pre 15 WC. I still think he's that Donald like player we need with loads of experience and solid skills.

Perenara finally hit some form for the Canes against the Reds, but I think he would probably have been in the mix anyway ... have to agree that Anscombe will have no show because I read Cruden will be back anyway, but, given the attrition rate of our 1st fives, I thought you can never have too many, hence the suggestion ... he might not have taken the opportunity anyway, if it's the only test he's likely to play.

 

[nzlizard]

Yeah Anscombe is a no go, he is a great super rugby player but not quite at that next level, mind you he is only 22 so plenty of time to grow into it.

The reason I think they will go TJ over Ellis is Ellis is 30 and TJ is 22, we have an incumbent in Smith who is 25 so if they is bugger all between Ellis and TJ it makes sense to take the young apprentice.

You would think that Slade would get the 3rd #10 slot if we take one, he has been pretty consistent this season, just need out 10's to start kicking practice a bit more.

 

[Darwin]

I think Weepu could start showing some signs before the end of the season as his heart condition thing is pretty telling on why he's been a bit off the last season or two. Ellis will be very hard done by. And Peranara will be very very lucky if he gets anywhere near the AB's squad.

I give Anscombe almost no chance at all now and Slade the best chance of anyone getting that third flyhalf spot. IMO Hansen would be nuts not to give him another try pre 15 WC. I still think he's that Donald like player we need with loads of experience and solid skills.

I really hope we don't have to resort to picking Weepu again. We have a number of incredibly talented young halfbacks (and an older one in fantastic form), picking Weepu would be a big backward step IMO. The AB's currently play an up-tempo game-plan that doesn't suit Weepu's style of play at all. Weepu has a fight on his hands to even regain the Blues 9 jersey, as Bryn Hall has added some real spark to the side since he has become their starting halfback.

Personally I hope we don't have any Donald like players in our RWC squad. If the best Slade can be is 'Donald like' we need to start looking for better alternatives!

Yeah Anscombe is a no go, he is a great super rugby player but not quite at that next level, mind you he is only 22 so plenty of time to grow into it.

The reason I think they will go TJ over Ellis is Ellis is 30 and TJ is 22, we have an incumbent in Smith who is 25 so if they is bugger all between Ellis and TJ it makes sense to take the young apprentice.

You would think that Slade would get the 3rd #10 slot if we take one, he has been pretty consistent this season, just need out 10's to start kicking practice a bit more.

Honestly I don't believe age plays a big part in Ellis's non-selection. He is 30, but he is playing the best rugby of his career, and could well have 3-4 good years left in him. I just don't think the current selection panel are a fan of his style of play. Kerr-Barlow is pretty young too (24) - having a bit of experience among the halfback group wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing....

 

[austingtir]

I really hope we don't have to resort to picking Weepu again. We have a number of incredibly talented young halfbacks (and an older one in fantastic form), picking Weepu would be a big backward step IMO. The AB's currently play an up-tempo game-plan that doesn't suit Weepu's style of play at all. Weepu has a fight on his hands to even regain the Blues 9 jersey, as Bryn Hall has added some real spark to the side since he has become their starting halfback.

Personally I hope we don't have any Donald like players in our RWC squad. If the best Slade can be is 'Donald like' we need to start looking for better alternatives!




Honestly I don't believe age plays a big part in Ellis's non-selection. He is 30, but he is playing the best rugby of his career, and could well have 3-4 good years left in him. I just don't think the current selection panel are a fan of his style of play. Kerr-Barlow is pretty young too (24) - having a bit of experience among the halfback group wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing....

You mean last years game plan? Remember the other teams will of been watching all the videos and actually imo the European tour found us out in a couple of games i reckon. That gameplan has worked the last two o three years... I still feel we will get found out by next year if we keep going down that path.

Weepu does still have a more complete kicking game than any other halfback in the comp thats why i would select him I think over the coming games against the Chiefs he will stand out quite a bit. We only really need one quick nippy halfback in Smith imo. We need the others to bring different things for when we need to change tactics as Smith is great at being nippy but when a forward pack gets on top of us and gives him some ***** he still looks like a deer in the headlights. I still believe he was a direct contributor to our loss against England two years ago and I havent seen anything that would change that happening again.

For that matter for the WC i actually believe Smith, Ellis and Weepu wouldnt be a terrible combination. Id prefer TKB in there though but i do think he needs a wake up call so id probably drop him for a few game this year. I feel Peranara needs more time.

That said I expect the selectors to pull the usual selections with Smith, TKB and Peranara. But thats not what i would do.

 

[Darwin]

You mean last years game plan? Remember the other teams will of been watching all the videos and actually imo the European tour found us out in a couple of games i reckon. That gameplan has worked the last two o three years... I still feel we will get found out by next year if we keep going down that path.

Weepu does still have a more complete kicking game than any other halfback in the comp thats why i would select him I think over the coming games against the Chiefs he will stand out quite a bit. We only really need one quick nippy halfback in Smith imo. We need the others to bring different things for when we need to change tactics as Smith is great at being nippy but when a forward pack gets on top of us and gives him some ***** he still looks like a deer in the headlights. I still believe he was a direct contributor to our loss against England two years ago and I havent seen anything that would change that happening again.

For that matter for the WC i actually believe Smith, Ellis and Weepu wouldnt be a terrible combination. Id prefer TKB in there though but i do think he needs a wake up call so id probably drop him for a few game this year. I feel Peranara needs more time.

That said I expect the selectors to pull the usual selections with Smith, TKB and Peranara. But thats not what i would do.

Our game-plan revolves around a high tempo game with the halfback delivering quick ball to our backs. We aren't going to change this, and quite frankly we would be mad if we did. When you have the best backline in the world it is pretty obvious that you should give them as much time and space as possible to work their magic. There were certainly aspects of our game-plan that certainly need work (or should be scrapped altogether), but delivering quick, clean ball to the backs should not be one of them. With Weepu at halfback this would not be possible. He is far too slow to the breakdown, and even when he eventually gets there he doesn't deliver the ball immediately.

A strong kicking game is essential for any halfback these days, but Smith, Perenara, and Kerr-Barlow all have solid kicking games these days. Perhaps not quite as good as Weepu's, but strong enough at test level (Ellis's kicking game is even better than Weepu's). By including Weepu it would slightly improve the teams kicking game, but it would have an incredibly detrimental affect on the teams attack. The reason we are the top side in the world is because we use our backs to score tries. It is no coincidence at all that out wings have started scoring bucket-loads of tries these last two seasons once we changed to a more up-tempo game plan and included Aaron Smith at halfback. If we decide to play a more slow-paced structured game plan we will play right into the hands of South Africa (and several other sides). No longer will we have the advantages we had over them previously - it would turn into a 50:50 contest at best (in fact I would probably pick South Africa....).

If our forward pack was getting dominated every week I think Weepu's experience, strong kicking game and physicality could be of some use (as it is difficult to deliver quick ball to your backs in these situations), but how often does this happen? We usually still manage to get parity (or close to parity) against South Africa - the last time we got completely dominated up front was against England 2 years ago when most of the side were still recovering from Norovirous!

Honestly I think Weepu will be lucky to get back in the Blues starting XV this season, let alone the All Blacks squad....

 

[austingtir]

Our game-plan revolves around a high tempo game with the halfback delivering quick ball to our backs. We aren't going to change this, and quite frankly we would be mad if we did. When you have the best backline in the world it is pretty obvious that you should give them as much time and space as possible to work their magic. There were certainly aspects of our game-plan that certainly need work (or should be scrapped altogether), but delivering quick, clean ball to the backs should not be one of them. With Weepu at halfback this would not be possible. He is far too slow to the breakdown, and even when he eventually gets there he doesn't deliver the ball immediately.

A strong kicking game is essential for any halfback these days, but Smith, Perenara, and Kerr-Barlow all have solid kicking games these days. Perhaps not quite as good as Weepu's, but strong enough at test level (Ellis's kicking game is even better than Weepu's). By including Weepu it would slightly improve the teams kicking game, but it would have an incredibly detrimental affect on the teams attack. The reason we are the top side in the world is because we use our backs to score tries. It is no coincidence at all that out wings have started scoring bucket-loads of tries these last two seasons once we changed to a more up-tempo game plan and included Aaron Smith at halfback. If we decide to play a more slow-paced structured game plan we will play right into the hands of South Africa (and several other sides). No longer will we have the advantages we had over them previously - it would turn into a 50:50 contest at best (in fact I would probably pick South Africa....).

If our forward pack was getting dominated every week I think Weepu's experience, strong kicking game and physicality could be of some use (as it is difficult to deliver quick ball to your backs in these situations), but how often does this happen? We usually still manage to get parity (or close to parity) against South Africa - the last time we got completely dominated up front was against England 2 years ago when most of the side were still recovering from Norovirous!

Honestly I think Weepu will be lucky to get back in the Blues starting XV this season, let alone the All Blacks squad....

Thats all fine for this year but next year with a WC in England.... Im not saying play slow at all I just dont think Smith is the only one capable of a snappy delivery and I dont really think it will be that important at the WC next year. We all know the rules change a bit at WC tournaments and they usually dont suit us. 2011 was a bit of an exception other than the final we pretty much got it our own way.

And Smith does have the best kicking game out of those three still nowhere near Weepu and Ellis though.... Peranara and TKB are totally untested and very dubious TJ in particular imo.

 

[Shaggy]

Thats all fine for this year but next year with a WC in England.... Im not saying play slow at all I just dont think Smith is the only one capable of a snappy delivery and I dont really think it will be that important at the WC next year. We all know the rules change a bit at WC tournaments and they usually dont suit us. 2011 was a bit of an exception other than the final we pretty much got it our own way.

And Smith does have the best kicking game out of those three still nowhere near Weepu and Ellis though.... Peranara and TKB are totally untested and very dubious TJ in particular imo.

I think Perenara can bring the extra physicality that Smith may lack, but I agree that he is un-tested ... He played very well against the Reds, but needs to carry that form into the next few games ... I'd like to see him get some game time for the ABs to see what he can do.

While I feel for Ellis, who's been playing very well the last couple of seasons, and Weepu with his health issues, it's not like the halfback situation is like the Hooker situation ... we have young halfbacks that are up to the task, where as we are basically having to rely on Mealamu (along with Coles) to shoulder the work load, because the younger contenders are yet to get their core skills sorted out.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Nathan Harris had a very good game for the Chiefs tonight.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Saili can be ruled out now, he's out for 6-8 weeks: http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16024_9296381,00.html

Will we now see Fekitoa in the squad?

 

[nzlizard]

Article here with a comment from Hansen that Fekitoa is on the radar.

https://nz.sports.yahoo.com/rugby/news/article/-/23206038/rugby-fekitoa-on-all-blacks-radar/

 

[IRISH RUGBY MAN]

Does anyone know when the squad will be announced?

 

[Shaggy]

Does anyone know when the squad will be announced?

The article that NZLizard references about Fekitoa being on the radar says that a 35 man squad for training camps will be announced on 12 May, I'm not sure when the series squad will be announced

 

[Larksea]

I'm going to put my hand up and just admit I'm not really watching much of the super rugby at the moment but of the few games I have watched one forward and one back really stand out.

James Broadhurst - I think its been a breakout season for him. He is arguably the form lock in NZ and his straight running game has been insane. He really takes the ball up hard, sucks in defenders and makes them recoil. I think he will be in calculations for sure, thrush is so why not broadhurst who I think has more potential. No way has thrush nailed down that 4th lock spot.

The other is Fekitoa for obvious reasons.

 

[Darwin]

I'm going to put my hand up and just admit I'm not really watching much of the super rugby at the moment but of the few games I have watched one forward and one back really stand out.

James Broadhurst - I think its been a breakout season for him. He is arguably the form lock in NZ and his straight running game has been insane. He really takes the ball up hard, sucks in defenders and makes them recoil. I think he will be in calculations for sure, thrush is so why not broadhurst who I think has more potential. No way has thrush nailed down that 4th lock spot.

The other is Fekitoa for obvious reasons.

I agree Broadhurst has had a good season. He has always been a strong ball runner with good ball skills, but there have always been question marks about his work-rate and work in the tight. I think he has really improved in these areas this season - I'm not sure whether he should be in the AB's squad, but I wouldn't be disappointed if he was included.

 

[nickdnz]

Broadhurst was outstanding in 2012 and after a season of getting limited game time and admittedly pretty average performances I'm happy to see he is back near his best. That said there is quite the log jam at lock. I'd certainly prefer him to Romano mind you.

 

[Darwin]

So a 35-man training squad will be named in less than a week. I'm not sure whether injured players (Cruden, Todd etc) will be included - assuming they are available I'm picking we will see something along the lines of:

Crockett, Woodcock, B Franks, O Franks, Faumuina, Toomaga-Allen
Coles, Mealamu, Coltman
S Whitelock, Retallick, Romano, Bird, Thrush
Luatua, Kaino, Messam, McCaw, Cane, Read
A Smith, Perenara, Kerr-Barlow
Cruden, Barrett, Slade
Nonu, Crotty, C Smith, Fekitoa
Savea, Piutau, B Smith, Jane, Dagg

If Cruden isn't fit enough I imagine Taylor would be picked in his place (though Sopoaga is going well for the Highlanders - defense aside). In the past they have , picked a few 'bolters' in these training squads - I can't see many newer players being included (apart from Fekitoa), but the likes of R Marshall, Flynn (not a new player...), Funnell, Hames, Tuipolotu, Broadhurst, Braid (hopefully!), Todd, L Whitelock, A Savea, Pulu, Ellis (not a new player either..), Sopoaga, T Marshall, Moala, Halai, Visinia, and Nanai-Williams are all outside chances in my opinion.

 

[Shaggy]

So a 35-man training squad will be named in less than a week. I'm not sure whether injured players (Cruden, Todd etc) will be included - assuming they are available I'm picking we will see something along the lines of:

Crockett, Woodcock, B Franks, O Franks, Faumuina, Toomaga-Allen
Coles, Mealamu, Coltman
S Whitelock, Retallick, Romano, Bird, Thrush
Luatua, Kaino, Messam, McCaw, Cane, Read
A Smith, Perenara, Kerr-Barlow
Cruden, Barrett, Slade
Nonu, Crotty, C Smith, Fekitoa
Savea, Piutau, B Smith, Jane, Dagg

If Cruden isn't fit enough I imagine Taylor would be picked in his place (though Sopoaga is going well for the Highlanders - defense aside). In the past they have , picked a few 'bolters' in these training squads - I can't see many newer players being included (apart from Fekitoa), but the likes of R Marshall, Flynn (not a new player...), Funnell, Hames, Tuipolotu, Broadhurst, Braid (hopefully!), Todd, L Whitelock, A Savea, Pulu, Ellis (not a new player either..), Sopoaga, T Marshall, Moala, Halai, Visinia, and Nanai-Williams are all outside chances in my opinion.

If I was "Shag" Hanson ... instead of "Shag" gy ... I would put those young hookers on notice by inviting Nathan Harris to the camp ... I'm not saying select him, because he's too inexperienced, but he does do the core roles of a hooker well (including throwing the ball into the lineout straight), he also looks pretty good in open play

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

If I was "Shag" Hanson ... instead of "Shag" gy ... I would put those young hookers on notice by inviting Nathan Harris to the camp ... I'm not saying select him, because he's too inexperienced, but he does do the core roles of a hooker well (including throwing the ball into the lineout straight), he also looks pretty good in open play

Be a bit extreme selecting Harris on the basis of 9 ITM Cup appearances at one Super Rugby start Though he definitely looked good this past weekend.

 

[Darwin]

If I was "Shag" Hanson ... instead of "Shag" gy ... I would put those young hookers on notice by inviting Nathan Harris to the camp ... I'm not saying select him, because he's too inexperienced, but he does do the core roles of a hooker well (including throwing the ball into the lineout straight), he also looks pretty good in open play

Forgot about him. He will certainly be another who is in contention for this camp - he trained with the AB's at one stage last season (so they obviously have some interest in him), and he looked good in his first Super Rugby start last week (though one of his lineout throws was called 'not straight'....).