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[2014 TRC] Argentina v South Africa in Salta (23/08/2014)

Jaguares

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Argentina
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1 Marcos Ayerza
2 Agustín Creevy (c)
3 Ramiro Herrera
4 Mariano Galarza
5 Tomás Lavanini
6 Pablo Matera
7 Juan Fernández Lobbe
8 Juan Manuel Leguizamón
9 Martín Landajo
10 Nicolás Sánchez
11 Manuel Montero
12 Juan Martín Hernández
13 Marcelo Bosch
14 Lucas González Amorosino
15 Joaquín Tuculet

Reserves:

16 Matías Cortese, 17 Bruno Postiglioni, 18 Nahuel Tetaz Chaparro, 19 Matías Alemanno, 20 Leonardo Senatore, 21 Tomás Cubelli, 22 Jerónimo De la Fuente, 23 Horacio Agulla
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1 Gurthö Steenkamp
2 Bismarck du Plessis
3 Jannie du Plessis
4 Eben Etzebeth
5 Lood de Jager
6 Francois Louw
7 Juan Smith
8 Duane Vermeulen
9 Ruan Pienaar
10 Handré Pollard
11 Bryan Habana
12 Jean de Villiers (c)
13 Damian de Allende
14 Cornal Hendricks
15 Willie le Roux

Reserves:

16 Adriaan Strauss, 17 Tendai Mtawarira, 18 Frans Malherbe, 19 Bakkies Botha, 20 Marcell Coetzee, 21 Francois Hougaard, 22 Morné Steyn, 23 Lwazi Mvovo

Stadium: Padre Ernesto Martearena
Capacity: 20,408
City: Salta
Country: Argentina
Referee: Steve Walsh

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this one feels strange beforehand. Pumas have already produced their very good, ultra-competitive game against the Boks, this would be a first they should do it twice in a row. Maybe a novelty for this third year in the tournament.
I've read comments about the bad weather and we all know and agree on what that does to a match, but the reality is the Pumas took it to the Boks who were at home, with a fully healthy lineup and completely unable to take over the match. And it's not like the Boks are the AB or Aussies to play ball in hand the whole way and score flashy tries. In fact in that specific matchup, the Pumas are the ones who'd have benefited from a better clearer sky and drier, crisper pitch given they like to attack with Sanchez leading the way and an intent-laden backline.

Anyways: this one will be drier probably, but the psychological setup is much different. The Boks now know for sure they fear going to Argentina after two terrifying trips there for the world's very second best and are in duress of reacting this early in the competition whereas they had comfortably started the last two occasions. So they'll answer present and this year more than the last two they have real hopes and real ambitions of winning the ***le and aren't going to let the "little" Pumas spoil the party, so I expect a raging Springboks' side this weekend.

On Argentina's side, I'm almost always surprised by how comfortable they look on the pitch.
They're underdogs in basically EVERY SINGLE GAME they play in a year, because they're either at home but playing B or C sides to 6N squads, or touring Stade de France, Twickers, Dublin or Cardiff in November, or they're simply measuring up to the SANZAR three mid-way through the year.
And yet, they always look industrious, put their heads down, and work. You don't see them panicking or giving into the pressure of a matchup or being down in a game. They're like ants (in a good way !), they just keep working, applying their game plan, and just never look intimidated. Never discouraged, just keep going and going...

VERY impressive. I don't think they've received enough praise for their performance last week and tbh it's a little disheartening to read so much about the bad weather in stead...yeh, it rained a lot, we got that elementary fact.

So I fear Argentina will have a really tough time in this one. I hope they play a competitive game; and maybe more, who knows; but I can see the Boks willing to correct the order of things here.
 
I have possibly a different perspective.

On one hand I really do think we'd have been the team to benefit more from a dry pitch. At the same time a dry pitch would not solve some factors that influenced the game;

Argentina have a better scrum. We aren't putting pressure on their line out while they are more than willing to take us on there and sucessfully so and us without any of our previous specialist line-out operators. We are a team who play off set piece dominance more than break down dominance IMO.

Despite our 'traditional strengths' I feel we need to take them on ball in hand and with width as i feel we are better than them 12 outwards but which we're only comfortable doing on a dry hard track.
 
I have possibly a different perspective.

On one hand I really do think we'd have been the team to benefit more from a dry pitch. At the same time a dry pitch would not solve some factors that influenced the game;

Argentina have a better scrum. We aren't putting pressure on their line out while they are more than willing to take us on there and sucessfully so and us without any of our previous specialist line-out operators. We are a team who play off set piece dominance more than break down dominance IMO.

Despite our 'traditional strengths' I feel we need to take them on ball in hand and with width as i feel we are better than them 12 outwards but which we're only comfortable doing on a dry hard track.

I expect another closer affair, not that we can read anything into this past weekend's match as neither team showed much other than kicking. The only thing that might play in SA's favour was the Nicholas Sanchez showing that he likes to go at the line alone, and using the odd dummy. He gained a lot of metres against us this past weekend, but I think next time we will be ready for him, if he tries that.
 
I expect another closer affair, not that we can read anything into this past weekend's match as neither team showed much other than kicking. The only thing that might play in SA's favour was the Nicholas Sanchez showing that he likes to go at the line alone, and using the odd dummy. He gained a lot of metres against us this past weekend, but I think next time we will be ready for him, if he tries that.

That's just it, I expect us to keep ball in hand a lot more if we have 'familiar' conditions. I really hope HM keeps the backline as is not least because Pollard could be trusted to keep his direct opposite in line. Up front though I really do think JdP needs a good long rest. I'd like us to start Etzebeth as well, with Botha and De Jager we just don't have a line out. Let JdP stay at home. I bet HM is or at least should be having 2nd thoughts about bringing in Bakkies instead of Lewies and not selecting our best scrummiging TH in SR this year in Julian Redelinghuys..
 
That's just it, I expect us to keep ball in hand a lot more if we have 'familiar' conditions. I really hope HM keeps the backline as is not least because Pollard could be trusted to keep his direct opposite in line. Up front though I really do think JdP needs a good long rest. I'd like us to start Etzebeth as well, with Botha and De Jager we just don't have a line out. Let JdP stay at home. I bet HM is or at least should be having 2nd thoughts about bringing in Bakkies instead of Lewies and not selecting our best scrummiging TH in SR this year in Julian Redelinghuys..

I think HM has a lot of second thoughts about a bunch of players. But he has to trust his gut and see what happens.

If I were HM I'd keep the same team. Why change when we're winning, no matter how ugly or difficult it was. With a dryer game on the cards, we could have a more exciting game on our hands, and I see it's a bit of an early kick-off to accomodate us living in SA to watch the game.

There's no harm in keeping Frans and Eben on the bench for one more game, easing them even more back into full match fitness is the right way to go.
 
And on the Pumas' side, I'll be looking for Montero the young winger to benefit from good balls, possibly off broken play or from Nic Sanchez (who beat 4 defenders last week) and express himself a lot more. I like this player a lot, very elegant yet powerful runner, good flair. He was absolutely nonexistent last week though, not that it's all his fault. Sanchez and FB Tuculet ran the most for the Pumas, but their center pair, as expected, didn't produce a lot. The Saffers have the advantage there.

Habana still "has it" though, and all it takes is the ball falling in his hands serendipitously and he's off and that's 7 more points on the scoreboard. No rainy, murky setting this time, and a clear path on his channel at all times...Pumas will just have to make him a priority. Le Roux ran well last week, so he'll have to be in check too. All in all the Boks have the advantage in the backs really...

I think the Boks are going to win this quite comfortably. I'm going to say as early as today (assuming the lineups will be virtually identical)...Boks by 15.
 
I think Jannie du Plessis is the worst SA's front row at the moment. I hope HM keep him at the starting Boks, he has been really bad in the last game. We must press him
 
i really hope to see Frans Malherbe start ahead off Jannie, i also hope south africa play alot better than they did last week.
 
Meh, I don't want to comment on last weeks game or this weeks game until its over.
The game was ruined by the weather in my opinion, almost every aspect of it, I know that's an excuse but in my head at least - it's a valid one.

Maybe the Argies are much better than I think they are or we are worse, but I'm not making any judgments until I've watched more games of this tournament.
 
With Alberts out it'll be interestng to see which way HM goes. Marcel Coetzee I think did really well and so did Vermeulen (my personal MotM) and Louw (the official MotM) each individually but the mix just was not 100% IMO. I know Alberts hasn't been in awesome form this year but I think a wet out like Saturday would've been his natural habitat and we missed him and not only in open play but for the scrum and line outs as well. That said I am excited about Whiteley's call up but he should only play if the conditions are perfect. Juan Smith is also there. I have no idea what kind of loose forward mix I'd prefer though.. probably I'd go 6Louw/Coetzee, 7Smith, 8Vermeulen with Whiteley on the bench. I would choose either of Louw or Coetzee, not have both in the matchday 23. I think Smith would bring the best balance to our backrow and our misfiring line out. And Whiteley at the end should be interesting with his 7's skills.
 
With Alberts out it'll be interestng to see which way HM goes. Marcel Coetzee I think did really well and so did Vermeulen (my personal MotM) and Louw (the official MotM) each individually but the mix just was not 100% IMO. I know Alberts hasn't been in awesome form this year but I think a wet out like Saturday would've been his natural habitat and we missed him and not only in open play but for the scrum and line outs as well. That said I am excited about Whiteley's call up but he should only play if the conditions are perfect. Juan Smith is also there. I have no idea what kind of loose forward mix I'd prefer though.. probably I'd go 6Louw/Coetzee, 7Smith, 8Vermeulen with Whiteley on the bench. I would choose either of Louw or Coetzee, not have both in the matchday 23. I think Smith would bring the best balance to our backrow and our misfiring line out. And Whiteley at the end should be interesting with his 7's skills.

I was surprized to see Mohoje on the bench when Willem was removed from the team due to injury, I was sure that Juan Smith would've made the bench.

But with that said, I'm glad to see HM keeping on picking guys who are on form. Whiteley now got the call up, but I wonder if he'll make the cut. We all know HM likes the bigger guys, not that Whiteley is a light/small guy. But he's sureley there for back-up to Duane, due to Willem being out. maybe he'll be on the bench?

One thing we should concentrate on is getting our forwards faster to the breakdown. Argentina exploited this, and when I watched the NZ/Aus game, both their guys are there in a flash.
 
With Alberts out it'll be interestng to see which way HM goes. Marcel Coetzee I think did really well and so did Vermeulen (my personal MotM) and Louw (the official MotM) each individually but the mix just was not 100% IMO. I know Alberts hasn't been in awesome form this year but I think a wet out like Saturday would've been his natural habitat and we missed him and not only in open play but for the scrum and line outs as well. That said I am excited about Whiteley's call up but he should only play if the conditions are perfect. Juan Smith is also there. I have no idea what kind of loose forward mix I'd prefer though.. probably I'd go 6Louw/Coetzee, 7Smith, 8Vermeulen with Whiteley on the bench. I would choose either of Louw or Coetzee, not have both in the matchday 23. I think Smith would bring the best balance to our backrow and our misfiring line out. And Whiteley at the end should be interesting with his 7's skills.

I agree with the "Team of the week" depiction: 'Thor' was good at the base of the scrum, despite tremendous pressure there, and offered consistent carrying for the limited go forward ball S.A. got at all.
And Coetze simply made 14/14 tackles, a game high, and perfect completion. He was good in the rucks and very active. Good workrate, good signs for the Springboks.
Would be nice to see Juan Smith in green again...

Argentina are in for yet another ***anic battle on the ground.
 
I agree with the "Team of the week" depiction: 'Thor' was good at the base of the scrum, despite tremendous pressure there, and offered consistent carrying for the limited go forward ball S.A. got at all.
And Coetze simply made 14/14 tackles, a game high, and perfect completion. He was good in the rucks and very active. Good workrate, good signs for the Springboks.
Would be nice to see Juan Smith in green again...

Argentina are in for yet another ***anic battle on the ground.

Yes, we don't have a Hooper or a Read as such but our loose trio saved us from having to wipe egg off of our faces for sure. Vermeulen saved a scrum or three certainly on a night where we were struggling in the set pieces. At the ruck Argentina competed well as they play there in numbers which is effective in that it- of course- ups the weight but also like a herd of zebra confuses the official who has multiple bodies to focus on. We on the other hand have multiple guys that are good on the deck (Louw, Bismarck, Coetzee and Vermeulen all four are strong over the ball) but they tend to go it alone. Just interesting to see the different styles competing with mixed results.

Now our tight five have to step up or we can probably assume we are going to have more of the same poor weather or not.

Wednesdays are fast becoming among my favorite days as I am assuming we are going to see the SA line-ups.

I'd love to see a change of props. Beast and Jannie continue to look tired. I'd love to go (in the absence of selection of Van der Merwes, Heinke and Schalk and tighthead Julian Redelinghuys) 1Nyakane, 3Malherbe with Beast and Marcel van der Merwe on the bench.

At lock we need to get someone in on the line-outs. Hopefully Etzebeth can start this time round. Relying on Lood de Jager and Vermeulen to give the calls was a mistake (not that we had much choice). Etzebeth in should help and I wouldn't be surprised to see Juan Smith at blindside to add another line-out option with Alberts out. Coetzee or Whiteley on the bench.. might we see Mohoje? Who cares..

The backline I'd keep as is (apart form Pienaar who I still can't believe continues ala Kirchner) because I don't want to see knee-jerk reactions to Saturday (other than addressing issues that were there beforehand; tired props and imbalance in the 2nd row though that is down to injury so not much to be done..).
 
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I have mixed feelings about this game. On one hand, I'm happy with the Pumas' performance in Pretoria. Furthermore, if we remember the performances of Boks in the last two years in Mendoza, weren't the best, there is a little chance we can get a win.

Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut, they are the mighty Springboks, the famous Springboks, and they are angry. That's never good if you have to see the faces with them. So I don't want to risk and say an outcome. They are still the favorites, we've just got a draw in 5 games against them.
 
Juan Smith is back

Springboks Р15 Willie le Roux, 14 Cornal Hendricks, 13 Damian de Allende, 12 Jean de Villiers (c), 11 Bryan Habana, 10 Handr̩ Pollard, 9 Ruan Pienaar, 8 Duane Vermeulen, 7 Juan Smith, 6 Francois Louw, 5 Lood de Jager, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Jannie du Plessis, 2 Bismarck du Plessis, 1 Gurth̦ Steenkamp.
Subs: 16 Adriaan Strauss, 17 Tendai Mtawarira, 18 Frans Malherbe, 19 Bakkies Botha, 20 Marcell Coetzee, 21 Francois Hougaard, 22 Morné Steyn, 23 Lwazi Mvovo
 
Juan Smith is back

15 Willie le Roux, 14 Cornal Hendricks, 13 Damian de Allende, 12 Jean de Villiers (c), 11 Bryan Habana, 10 Handré Pollard, 9 Ruan Pienaar, 8 Duane Vermeulen, 7 Juan Smith, 6 Francois Louw, 5 Lood de Jager, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Jannie du Plessis, 2 Bismarck du Plessis, 1 Gurthö Steenkamp.
Subs: 16 Adriaan Strauss, 17 Tendai Mtawarira, 18 Frans Malherbe, 19 Bakkies Botha, 20 Marcell Coetzee, 21 Francois Hougaard, 22 Morné Steyn, 23 Lwazi Mvovo

yep. Happy to see that for the Boks. I've been eager to see how he does at test level. I have no doubt he'll be just as good as we've seen him in Toulon, as some Top 14 and H Cup playoff games are basically test level.

Nice 23. Mtawarira really is on a low atm huh. On the bench this time, that's not an innocent coaching decision. Steenkamp can still play, the old bull. Let's see what he can do against Herrera on his side of the scrum.
And btw, if S.A. have a better scrummager than Jannie dP, they should REALLYYYY think of playing that guy in stead. Overall, superb looking pack for the Boks.
 
Some thoughts though I think I've made them clear enough for what they are worth;

Not at all surprised by Etzebeth and Smith starting. Should hopefully go some ways to remedy the issues at line-out and is a more like for like selection considering injuries. Much better balance all round IMO.

Why Beast gets benched byt not Jannie I can't understand. Malherbe is a better scrummager as is and in some sort of form despite his young age for a prop. I'm not saying Jannie has no spot but he has been played to death. And I'd have been happier with one of Marcel van der Merwe or Nyakane coming in rather than Steenkamp. Actually Heinke van der Merwe and Julian Redelinghuys would have featured for me but they're not even if in the squads so no point in wishing.

I'm not going to waste my time deriding the continued inclusion of Pienaar any more. I've said enough on that and I'll keep scratching my head there but other than that I am happy HM has kept the faith in the rest despite not living up to expectation in round 1. Hopefully they'll show why they are all there.

Quitely confident despite the fixture being away. Hopefully an entertaining match. I'll go Bokke by 5 to 10.
 
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Pumas team named:

1 Marcos Ayerza
2 Agustín Creevy (c)
3 Ramiro Herrera
4 Mariano Galarza
5 Tomás Lavanini
6 Pablo Matera
7 Juan Fernández Lobbe
8 Juan Manuel Leguizamón
9 Martín Landajo
10 Nicolás Sánchez
11 Manuel Montero
12 Juan Martín Hernández
13 Marcelo Bosch
14 Lucas González Amorosino
15 Joaquín Tuculet

Reserves:

16 Matías Cortese, 17 Bruno Postiglioni, 18 Nahuel Tetaz Chaparro, 19 Matías Alemanno, 20 Leonardo Senatore, 21 Tomás Cubelli, 22 Jerónimo de la Fuente y 23 Horacio Agulla.
 
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