[2015 RWC] Pool A: England vs. Wales (26/09/2015)

[goodNumber10]

And the decision to take Youngs off was absolutely absurd (someone correct me if he was in fact injured), he was by far England's best back in the first half.

Medical staff said he was injured and it was deteriorating rapidly.

 

[TheSaffycen]

Right I'm going to do match ratings. I won't do them for Wales but Biggar was a 10, and saying he was world class before the game and he proved it.
Marler 7- He wasn't scrummaging legally but if you get away with it and win the scrum contest then you have done well.
Youngs 6.5- If his lineout wasn't as weak as it is then would be close to 8. Made 10 tackles and is always great carrying.
Cole 7- Again scrummaging was brilliant but was awful with giving away the penalty.
Parling 7.5- He made 10 tackles, took lots of ball, he always performs for England.
Lawes 5.5-Didn't really do all that much but may have been injured.
Woods 6- Stole a lineout, playing much better now, only 3 tackles though..2 penalties given away
Robshaw 6- That call was a deciding factor, he made 11 tackles, carried well but we needed to come away with atleast a draw to stop wales momentum
Vunipola 8.5- He was brilliant, gave away a penalty, but Wales got smashed made 83 metres, 9 tackles, 2 defenders beaten. Injury came at bad time for us.
Youngs 8- He ran well caused many many problems but injury forced him off. He and Farrell linked well
Farrell 8.5- I thought he was brilliant everywhere, defence was smashing, kicking was incredible, attacking was good he went too the line well.
May 7- Scored the try, 3 clean breaks, 4 defenders beaten, should he have been sweeping for the Wales try ?
Burgess 7- 8 tackles and all of them massive, thought he went really well, 23 meters is a record for one of our 12s
Barritt 4- He missed tackles outright, pushed and gave Wales a try. He was really poor which is a shame as I like the guy.
Watson 5.5- Good in attack though he shouldn't have kicked as much and should have backed himself with the Amos situation. Also big mistake for Wales try.
Brown 8.5- He is incredible and is back to his best, hopefully he is going to make the knockout stages as he is great for rugby fans to watch.
Webber 5- Adds nothing and can't throw.
Vunipola 7- Carrys well and now scrum is the best we've seen from him, maybe worth a start but Marler did play well.
Launchbury 6- Didn't make a massive difference to me, still a brilliant player and should start next week.
Haskell 5.5- Didn't even notice him really but I don't think he made a lot of mistakes.
Wigglesworth 6.5- Didn't have the legs for the try, one really nice move near the end, Youngs was a step above though.
Ford 5.5- Did nothing good of note, wasn't strong in defence, wasn't the game for him to come on.

Lancaster 4- We started well, he had the boys well up for it but after half time the guys thought it was won. Already lost games from pre determined subs, yet he does it again. Ford had no need to come on. What was he going to add to the team when we were winning and needed big defence.

 

[davewins]

Hi everyone, I'm a newbie.....felt compelled to join after last nights horror show.
Congrats to Wales, they showed massive character to go through all those injuries and still keep their heads to turn around 10 points in the second half.
England have simply lost their way, I'm afraid. Lancaster/ Farrell are so dull as our two top coaches, and on the pitch Robshaw seems to be pretty uninspiring too.
Not taking cipriani was a huge mistake.

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Also, Lancaster publicly throwing Robshaw under the bus is a sure sign he isn't up to the job. That's simply not the way to do it....in private yes, but not in the media.

 

[Ospervat]

White 6 ought to be cited for kicking Red 15?

He flailed in with his right boot in the vicinity of heads and copped Red 15 on the side of the head. Red 15 had to be stretchered

There was no good reason for him to lash out with the boot, the ball was nowhere near. At the very least it was reckless!

Not sure that I entirely agree with your observations. The ball was very clearly close to Williams head. Could it be deemed dangerous play? - yes but, I'm not convinced that the kick to the head was intentional therefore it has to be accidental or reckless at worst which is not necessarily a citable offence.

Perhaps a formal warning to Wood that he will be under scrutiny going forward and another incident of this nature will not be tolerated from him.

 

[nzlizard]

I thought Burgess played well defensively, didn't do much on attack but he wasn't the only one.

Going for the try was a big call, but sometimes you have to do it, wasn't a bad call just badly executed.

 

[davewins]

Yes going short at the line out was too obvious. Gatland said as much afterwards, it made it too easy to put us into touch. That's part of England's problem....way too predictable.

 

[wayevs]

Don't think enough has been said about the performance of biggar , immense performance and that kick from near the halfway under pressure was superb , I think without the injuries to our squad it would of been a more comfortable win .

 

[ncurd]

For Oz

JJ back or Slade at 13
Burgess at 12
Honest I'd do Slade/JJ but I don't even see Lancaster dropping Barritt so I'm hoping for best case scenario here I can conceive of happening.

Ford to start or Farrell I'm happy with just think about the situation before substitutions. Poor game = yes, need defense=Farrell, need attack = Ford. Don't substitute Farrell for Ford with 10 mins to go and your 10 points up. What are you trying to accomplish?

Forwards wise there isn't much you can do the reserves are almost carbon copies of each other. I'd like Robshaw at 6 and a proper 7 at 7 but that won't happen. I'd swap Marler for Mako though how Marler got away with that angle in the scrum is stupid....why do the TMO not sa nything?

 

[msf]

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/sep/26/england-chris-robshaw-wales-world-cup-stuart-lancaster

Ooh, Lancaster thinks we can lose to Australia and get to the final! Is there no limit to the man´s ambition?

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Good no 10, you´re back! Don´t worry, I won´t point out that I and others have been right all this time about Lancaster´s regime...

 

[ncurd]

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/sep/26/england-chris-robshaw-wales-world-cup-stuart-lancaster

Ooh, Lancaster thinks we can lose to Australia and get to the final! Is there no limit to the man´s ambition?

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Good no 10, you´re back! Don´t worry, I won´t point out that I and others have been right all this time about Lancaster´s regime...

we can technically, but that's a massive dream and a wish situation.....

 

[msf]

It also sends out the wrong message. He should be telling the players that the next game is a win-at-all-costs one, not one we can afford to lose...

 

[j'nuh]

The problem with Barritt is that although he plays a very good blitz defence because of how fast he can get out of the line and how physical his defending is, in the 13 channel, he failed to spot the moment in which he needed to drift and use the touch line because of how unfamiliar he is with playing at 13. Joseph would not have made that mistake.

Brown is such a fantastic player, singly dragging our backline up. Definite contender for World XV at this point. Not sure where we would be without him.

 

[Wendigo7]

Just feel sorry for Catt.

Looks like he was overruled (imo) and had his head in his hands. Gutting for him as the coaches just starred. Wtf were they doing?

 

[ncurd]

It also sends out the wrong message. He should be telling the players that the next game is a win-at-all-costs one, not one we can afford to lose...

I know that but Lancaster has proven his incompetency this past week to every England fan even people who defended him like me. Might as well finish as hes been doing.

 

[jflintoff]

It also sends out the wrong message. He should be telling the players that the next game is a win-at-all-costs one, not one we can afford to lose...

Agreed. It's setting the standard for the performance. They need to bounce back and keep their heads high. Australia are easily beaten.

 

[ncurd]

Just feel sorry for Catt.

Looks like he was overruled (imo) and had his head in his hands. Gutting for him as the coaches just starred. Wtf were they doing?

Yup Catt got a lot of bad press before most people thinking him part of the problem. Sound like from from within he was the voice of reason against a PE Teacher and RL convert who accomplished nothing as player.

What has Catt accomplished? Oh yeah world cup winner at inside center whom always brought an edge of difference during the tournament. Think he might have the bet idea of what is really needed.

Catt looked like how I felt last night.

 

[chippieolamus]

Ok, for Australia will JJ be back? We desperately need him, I want to see him and Burgess together at 12 and 13. Launchbury in for Lawes, Nowell onto the bench.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

hello, couple of observations form last night.

1: it was an immense game, intensity was insane - I'm worried about the emotional toll on both teams ahead of Ausssies & Fiji.
2: I said against Ireland in the warm up games the Welsh fitness was incredible, and we saw it again last night.
3: Ford for Burgess was a bad call, it changed the game in a negative way for England - it should have been Ford for Farrell, or not at all. Burgess was good, bar a crappy kick.
4: Robshaws call to kick for the corner was the RIGHT call, win the game and England are through, Draw left them in almost the same position as a loss, but with a chance to go through on the 2012 rankings (sod that).
5: I knew we'd (England) had lost when Mike Brown lost his temper and fronted up to Warburton - knew emotion had taken over too much at that stage.

Great win for Wales, congrats lads, really great performance in a massive game. Super from the pack to get back into the game, difficult for them to back it up against Fiji with all the injuries, will be interesting to see how this pool pans out.

lastly nothing in the Wood/Williams connection, hacking a loose ball clumsily if he gets cited he'll get cleared.

laters

I'm sorry but it was a terrible call and it showed that England don't back themselves to beat the Aussies. As the group stood they had the extra match point over the Aussies against Fiji so a win vs Australia sends them straight through with the draw now there's a possibility that they can beat Australia and head home.

Getting through the group in any manner is better than going home and because of that poor call I think we'll see an early end to England's world cup.

As for the match, it had to be the match of the tournament thus far in terms of quality, two sides who played to their potential at times for an incredibly tense match up. Well done to Wales who extended their world cup fantastically in one of the most gutsy last 20 minutes of rugby I've ever seen when their backs were truly against the wall. Unfortunately, with injuries, I can't see them making it past the Saffas (who have been blessed with luck) but the quarter finals are a round further than England will be making it this championship which is a success in itself considering this was the most competitive group in RWC history. Dan Biggar is reaching Sexton's heights as an NH 10 and has become one of the top three outside halves in world rugby very quietly, probably due to having been in Halfpenny's shadow!

 

[Colombia]

4: Robshaws call to kick for the corner was the RIGHT call, win the game and England are through, Draw left them in almost the same position as a loss, but with a chance to go through on the 2012 rankings (sod that).

No, it was the wrong call. History bears that out. Take the kick, take the draw, maximise points in the remaining games and let the chips fall where they lie. You do NOT lose to Wales at home, but that's exactly what they did...unmitigated disaster.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

The problem with Barritt is that although he plays a very good blitz defence because of how fast he can get out of the line and how physical his defending is, in the 13 channel, he failed to spot the moment in which he needed to drift and use the touch line because of how unfamiliar he is with playing at 13. Joseph would not have made that mistake.

Brown is such a fantastic player, singly dragging our backline up. Definite contender for World XV at this point. Not sure where we would be without him.

Baritt made the mistake out on the pitch. Lancaster made the mistake by putting him there at 13 in the first place where he has little playing experience.
Time after time, Lancaster has opted for what appears to be the safe option personnel-wise but has led him to play guys out of position or to have ludicrous bench cover.

It's never been a sustainable approach and time and again we've been caught out.

Whether it be trying to play full backs on the wing against South Africa (and beyond) when we have a wealth of talent there and being found out.
Whether it's playing Farrell at 12 when we have half a dozen options there
Whether it's playing 3 6's in the backrow back in 2013 and being found out. Even now we play with two blindsides where there is avaialble talent at 7.
Whether it's playing Barritt at 13 when we could have had Slade there. If the press is to be belived, Barritt would have started there even had Joseph been fit.
Persisting with Goode even where time and again his speed has cost us (for example failure to get his man against France in Paris 2014, or being too slow to get in the air for that try against Ireland last SN)

There are probably other examples. These have all been bad decisions with predictably bad outcomes. More pertininently, all have been born from an in-built desire for "safety first". As @ratsapprentice rightly said, safe is it ****!?

Lancaster points to discipline as the reason we lost. Fair enough, but you're the bloody coach mate, do something about it. Indiscipline has dogged us forever, and certain frequent offenders such as Wood and Haskell have seemingly never been held to account for it. More crucially imo, every time we were carved open it tended to be a mistake made by a player inexperienced in his position - Burgess allowed that Scott Williams break in the first half and Barritt made the key error for the Wales try. Who should take responsibility for this? I think I know the answer.

Ultimately, although people are rightly saying it's not over yet, we were never going to win this thing. We are simply one of a number of teams with a theoretical shout. Look at the historical records and you'll see that champions tend to be top teams, not just good ones... neither the 2003, 2007 or 2011 winning squads oscillated so badly between the good and the bad performance as we have. We have had all the resources and the time in the world to build for this cup and it's been largely squandered.

Bloody well done to the Welsh. Biggar was on fire. Such a shame about these injuries because with them, I can't see Wales mounting a significant challenge for the cup, but this victory must taste sweet.


EDIT: As someone rightly said above, nzlizard? we can talk all we want about Robshaws call, but isn't it more worrying that we were not able to execute from the lineout in such a good position?
Execution killed us, not just one bad call. At the end of the day the dearth in skills still holds us back.