[2015 RWC] Pool C: New Zealand vs. Georgia (02/10/2015)

[Peat]

I'll use the word rape more often now

Don't. I've left that discussion for people to resolve themselves, but I'll issue a ban to anyone using it casually to wind people up.

 

[Mcfadden]

Can anyone here actually say they could see Carter running at the line like Foley for 3 games in row?

I don't think even Foley could give that performance 3 games in a row to be fair. It was man of the match stuff, not 'business as usual' for Foley. There's asking DC to be better, and then there's just being unreasonable.

 

[chikwa chibwe]

I don't think even Foley could give that performance 3 games in a row to be fair. It was man of the match stuff, not 'business as usual' for Foley. There's asking DC to be better, and then there's just being unreasonable.

The reality is DC is putting in mediocre performances. He keeps drifting . Andre pollard performance against the scots was far better than anything we have seen from DC. Lima sopoaga is being sorely missed .

 

[Mcfadden]

Our problems stretch beyond lack of form for one player. But it may indeed just be that we aren't going to come out of first gear until the quarterfinals. The whole team were, in the words of McCaw and Read, trying a bit too hard. Naholo was coming up to soon before the ball had reached SBW, resulting in a knock on. Carter was involved, but that wasn't his fault.

Look, I'm not protecting Carter, there are definitely areas to his game where I agree with you. But he didn't cost us the match, not even close. And statements like he hasn't done anything in 4 years are not true. He's been played at 12 half the time in the most awfully coached backline in SR and still goes in front of some players in key stats.

 

[ncurd]

Just be glad Aus will almost certainly be in the other side of the draw. You don't want to face them whilst in this state.

 

[nzlizard]

I don't think even Foley could give that performance 3 games in a row to be fair. It was man of the match stuff, not 'business as usual' for Foley. There's asking DC to be better, and then there's just being unreasonable.

I'm not saying that he will have this much success each game, but I reckon he will run like that every game he can.

Carter certainly won't run at the line as much as that, and will struggle to make that impact if he does, that's the concerning part.

 

[The Jones Boy]

There can be no doubt, if the All Blacks put in a very average performance like the one against Georgia, we will get roasted in the knockout stages. We will be gone.
Not taking anything away from an excellent display by Georgia, they were great to watch, but if we have that number of handling errors and any discipline issues then we will struggle to get beyond the quarters.
We need to find some fizz and fire, we look lack lustre.

 

[Shaggy]

There can be no doubt, if the All Blacks put in a very average performance like the one against Georgia, we will get roasted in the knockout stages. We will be gone.
Not taking anything away from an excellent display by Georgia, they were great to watch, but if we have that number of handling errors and any discipline issues then we will struggle to get beyond the quarters.
We need to find some fizz and fire, we look lack lustre.

I'm not too worried, as Hansen has said they have a few cards up their sleeve that they won't be revealing until the quarter finals ... the dropped passes and timing issues can be fixed before then.

 

[Larksea]

another interesting AB performance that creates more questions than answers...

Savea's name on the score sheet seems grand but he still looks slow and stuttering. My concerns around his game haven't changed.

I think the whole of NZ would have jumped and screamed at the sight of Naholo running in a 40+m effort and beating multiple defenders, then the shot of the coaching box and the look of relief and satisfaction on hansens face.. That is exactly what this side needs, but the feeling didn't last long. Most of the game Naholo looked out of position and out of beat. then he Hobbled around a bit before being subbed off.

Carter, he's still holding back but even I'm worried now. tentative is a word to describe his game, hes just linking rather than asserting himself on the game. Goal kicking is another worry, yes almost all his shots were from the sideline and most were close misses but after a couple of misses he should have got his eye in and started hitting them after making minor adjustments. IMO I honestly believe he still has the pace and vision. There have just been a few times when hes looked to run the ball and to me he genuinely looked fast and like he could open the game up if he wanted too but he's holding back. The worse case scenario is that he holds back till the quarters and gets injured soon after... Best case scenario is he plays his natural game and survives those three knockout games. One thing is for sure, he can't keep being tentative. At some point he is going to have to shift and put his foot down and if he gets injured so be it. Barrett will come in and we will go from there.

Alternatives? the few times we have had with Barrett at 10 the whole back line looked more dangerous and more likely to fire. His goal kicking is not much better right now. I think we have to put goal kicking aside and just hope they improve with these balls and also outside of a closed stadium which does seem to cause issues as well.

Slades position in the squad does seem more as a utility than a 10. And its getting a bit late in the comp to all of a sudden give him the #10 jersey.

6 is still an issue for me, Kaino hasn't been doing enough IMO and their are genuine question marks over his starting spot. I dont see vito as an option starting at 6, IMO he starts strong and fades too quickly and when under pressure he folds. His best role is in that lock cover position on the bench providing impact in the last 20 and in particular putting huge pressure on opposition line outs in that time. I hope messam does come back against Tonga and have a big game, he does have it in him and I think he can lift when needed. he is also a player that lifts and works harder when his team is under pressure. But what I think should be seriously considered is starting Sam Cane, 6 or 7 on his back I dont care. He and McCaw have been our best lose forwards Cane is knocking guys over on defense with good physicality hes constantly in the game, he carries the ball hard. Honestly on form right now starting cane at 6 ahead of Kaino will only improve the AB's overall, we wont lose anything other than the impact Cane has been providing off the bench. Kaino/Messam can hopefully provide that.

midfield is the other concern, as if we dont have enough to worry about. The form selections are SBW & Fekitoa. While Nonu & Smith are arguably the best midfield combination in the history of the game. Nonu has been misfiring other than eden park and Conrad smith is pretty much having his worst test season ever in terms of personal form. We are probably in a position where we just need to keep our faith in nonu & Smith and hope for the best.

Its pretty clear our scrum is not going to win us this WC, but we need to sure it up. On the bright side our forwards should be more mobile, stronger in the last 20min and provide more impact when the game opens up. Charlie & Crockett look like they are carrying the ball well. Owen Franks put in some big hits. For the first time ever I'm not sure where Woodcock fits in right now. 2011 was a good example, when woodcock was on the field we never had to worry about our scrum. For basically his whole career the lose head side of the scrum has been something we never had to worry about, until now.... I think I'm crazy for saying it bit it feels like IMO we would be better off with Ben Franks starting at 1 and Crockett coming off the bench. I dont think Ben would be any worse than Woody right now in the scrum he maybe even a bit better. And he is more mobile around the field a genuine top level defender, his main weakness has been his willingness to give away a silly yellow card once or twice a year... But I think hes less likely to do that starting and playing the first 50-60 min than coming off the bench for the last 20-30min.

Aaron smith is another who maybe holding back a bit, we've seen very little of the creative play hes known for. Was also a worry seeing TKB on the field with huge amounts of tape and strapping on his leg, something has clearly happened there that's a heck of a lot more strapping than last time he played. and around the field he looked very, very slow.

Players who are playing well? McCaw is giving everything as he always has, hes definitely not holding anything back just because these are easy pool games. Sam Whitelock has been very similar. SBW has been consistent, the offload game is still good and his defense is superb. Ben Smith has been the pick of the backs IMO, made one mistake but other than that hes everywhere, hes creating chances and get gets the ball moving forward even when he has no right to do so in heavy traffic. I wish more of the AB's would be inspired by watching how ben smith works in contact when he has the ball. Crazy watching guys like Vito or Kaino getting hit and going straight to deck when little Ben Smith gets hit and consistently makes another 5-10m gain after contact. You can't overstate how important this gains are that get the forwards going forward and the opposition defense tracking back before the next phase starts.

We know the ABs are capable of both making a big improvement over a week when needed and also lifting their game when the opposition gets tougher. They are also good at winning big games when they dont really fire. But these performances wont be doing their confidence much good, they are eventually going to come up against sides with a heck of a lot more confidence. Or France who seem to have one big game saved for the AB's every 4 years where they throw the form book out the window.

 

[Icemn]

I'm not too worried, as Hansen has said they have a few cards up their sleeve that they won't be revealing until the quarter finals ... .

Thats basically what I've said before this game... I haven't seen the this game (NZ vs Georgia) but the thing that concerns me the most are all these changes made to the team excluding injury changes Ofcoarse

I want Hanson to pick his starting 15 NOW for the rest of the RWC and i want him to stick with that team so that we can start getting some continuity/momentum going forward.

If you chop and change x amount of players frequently you are not improving as a team because you breaking your structure the whole time, which might explain the knockons you mentioned.

If the same team played that faced Namibia i bet there would have been this amount of handling errors.

Hanson will have to make his choice now so that the starting 15 can atleast get a match in vs Tonga before the 1/4s.

Regarding barrett and Slade, it was always a risk playing both your flyhalves in the same game as a starting pair. One flyhalf and the other "fool"-back. Its always difficult if you have so much talent, you cant pick everyone so someone would have missed out.

The decision was made slightly easier with the injury to IMO our form Flyhalf in cruden. Imagine if Cruden was fit, who would you leave at home?

I think slade had a good s15 and i think he was included for his cover as fullback, not sure if lima can play there

Anyways... I just hope we can stick to 1 team now going forward thats all i ask

 

[Kiwi_]

My problem with Slade is, he's already starting to look like a waste of time. He's already injured and barely kicked a ball. They need to make up there mind this week whether they risk carrying him through the tournament, or get a fit inform replacement, if they can have a kick in the Tongan game, even better.

But by the sounds of it, there might be special procedures now to bringing in the replacement, doctors might have to confirm he can no longer participate in the tournament and doesn't qualify for injury replacement.

 

[nickdnz]

My problem with Slade is, he's already starting to look like a waste of time. He's already injured and barely kicked a ball. They need to make up there mind this week whether they risk carrying him through the tournament, or get a fit inform replacement, if they can have a kick in the Tongan game, even better.

But by the sounds of it, there might be special procedures now to bringing in the replacement, doctors might have to confirm he can no longer participate in the tournament and doesn't qualify for injury replacement.

But who would you replace him with Kiwi?!? No one comes to mind.

 

[The Jones Boy]

Who's white baiting in the waikato river?

 

[Watcher]

Sopoaga for Slade,

 

[ABs2011]

My problem with Slade is, he's already starting to look like a waste of time. He's already injured and barely kicked a ball. They need to make up there mind this week whether they risk carrying him through the tournament, or get a fit inform replacement, if they can have a kick in the Tongan game, even better.

But by the sounds of it, there might be special procedures now to bringing in the replacement, doctors might have to confirm he can no longer participate in the tournament and doesn't qualify for injury replacement.

Slade is fine - trained in full yesterday.

Also whilst I see where you are coming from in terms of you thinking he is a waste of space, the reality is he is there as a utility and can and will still do the job that he was originally picked for IF Barrett or DC go down injured. Which is (at the risk of pointing out the obvious) covering 10 on the bench as well as wing/fullback. I still back his selection - he has never let us down and has been clutch off the bench with his kicking - I just hope it doesnt come to the point of him being required!

- - - Updated - - -

Thats basically what I've said before this game... I haven't seen the this game (NZ vs Georgia) but the thing that concerns me the most are all these changes made to the team excluding injury changes Ofcoarse

Really?

I've thought that was the one thing that hasn't been a concern. Other than the Namibia game they have largely played their full strength side which is what they said they planned to do all along! Most of the changes for Georgia (from the Argentina game) were injury enforced with the exception of the front row which I can only assume they wanted to pitt against a good opposition to see how they faired.

 

[Larksea]

yeah, the side has been fairly consistent, Argentina and Georgia were full strength sides with just injury changes. Tonga is going to be close to a full strength side again, with maybe giving Messam a run now his injury is probably close to 100%

Tonga is usually a busing encounter, they may choose to tweak selections to minimize chances of injury, they did that last WC but it was the opening game and not the final pool game. its kinda a shame that Argentina is not the final pool game...

 

[ABs2011]

Where did the coach say that? As that's not what I read.

And to repeat, Georgia are significantly better than Namibia. It shouldn't be a problem to beat them off a short turnaround regardless of which side plays New Zealand. I think the coach would have a hard time telling some of his team they're resting up for their nation's first ever chance to face NZ in order to play Namibia.

@psychic duck Re-evaluating the relative strength of Namibia & Georgia mate? Wasnt quite the walk in the park you insisted was it

Lucky they rested some players for this one huh!!