[2015 Six Nations] England vs Scotland (Round 4)

[msf]

I think this all comes down to the same thing: can you have maverick players in your team? By that I mean players who do things their own way, and who aren't just copies of each other. I think in this sense Jason Robinson was a maverick, so I would say the answer is yes. The question then is, how many of them can you fit in a team? Perhaps maverick is the wrong word, but I prefer it to Lancaster's 'point of difference.' I've noticed that the 'points of difference' of the players that Lancaster actually picks are often very similar, so we have Marler, Hartley, Cole and Atwood, all good in the set piece, but who offer little in attack when compared to the bench of M Vunipola, Youngs and Brookes. Wouldn't it be better to have a mix of 'attacking' and 'set-piece' players in the starting line-up, and on the bench? This was also the problem in the backs for a long time, where we had Farrell, Barritt and Tuilagi all with similar strengths and weaknesses. The only time Lancaster ever seems to get the mix right is when injuries make him select someone like Ford, Joseph, M Vunipola or T Youngs.

 

[Raggs]

Cole offers a lot in the breakdown that shouldn't be ignored. Hartley offers the set piece and little else, which is annoying. Marler is a very well rounded player, not quite the carrier of Mako, but superior in all other facets I'd say, he's become quite the prop.

Attwood isn't looking amazing atm, but he's still very powerful, makes some half decent runs, and often helps seriously disrupt opposition mauls, whilst being pretty effective in the lineout too. Would still drop him for a fit Launch though.

 

[Every Time Ref]

I'm an Attwood fan but I think he's third choice after Launch and Lawes. Love his physicality and set piece work, he's just a little bit inconsistent at international level for my money, really good games like Wales followed by poor ones like Italy. He's a good bench option though, and really I'd be very happy with any two locks from those three plus Kruis.

Oh, and Hartley needs to go. If he's throwing poorly, there is pretty much no reason to pick him. I know Youngs isn't absolutely blasting the door down for selection (and Webber is a steaming pile of turd at the moment), but he does offer something around the park, and the main reason for not picking him has always been shaky throwing. Hartley offers very little carrying or at the breakdown, but that has always been overlooked because he was a key part of a really strong lineout unit - which he no longer is.

 

[TheSaffycen]

Jamie George should have a run out. He is a good lineout thrower, tackler and is good over the ball.

 

[Every Time Ref]

Jamie George should have a run out. He is a good lineout thrower, tackler and is good over the ball.

That's a good shout actually, problems with all three of Lancaster's preferred hookers at the moment so why not cast the net further afield. Although having said that I guess it's pretty unlikely at the is stage of the World Cup cycle - same as the Slade issue

 

[Peat]

I am dubious about the idea that Marler exceeds Vunipola in defence and at the breakdown.

edit 1: I am not sure George is the all round package at international level but at the very least he is worth some Saxons caps and prolonged close inspection. If he can become reliable Hartley, that's acceptable. Youngs for now, flawed but effective.

edit 2: Attwood isn't doing enough around the field for me and I think Kruis was unlucky to be the one who lost out.

If I was absolutely convinced that Fazlet was not going to come back in ahead of Ford, then maybe I'd be a little more patient about Ford's defence and Ford becoming so good he merits inclusion anyway. But I'm not, so I'm looking for a hope of solving that. Hence Slade. But really, we want to be the best, Ford's defence is the sort of flaw we shouldn't be having. But then, we've got so many flaws all over, I'm definitely being harsh to single him out. I definitely want Ford to start until Slade or whoever is ready. Just I do want someone to usurp him, and I reckon it will happen particularly with Lancaster at the helm, and I think long term Slade is the best option for that.

edit 3: I really wish Slade was in the match day squad at the moment to speed up this process.

Slade's defence - he stopped Ranger dead once, but then Ranger was losing his footing. He stopped Ranger the second time, but allowed Ranger all the time in the world, and if I've laid into Ford for allowing Faletau to offload I definitely have to say Slade's effort wasn't good enough either. But then everyone loses some. Sexton got marched backwards by Bastareud, Fazlet learned he couldn't go high on Nonu, de Villiers got bumped by Tuilagi a few times, Barritt got sent flying by Savea... I can live with some going wrong. Most of them ending up over the gainline is a different kettle of fish.

 

[LiRFCMatt]

England vs Scotland - Review http://fourballsblog.blogspot.com/2015/03/england-vs-scotland-review.html

An excerpt:

The biggest disappointment of the game was Luther Burrell, who showed that he isn't the player to wear the number 12 shirt for England in the world cup, the English will be looking to the likes of Slade, Tuilagi or Eastmond to fill that role. The Scottish will be pretty pleased to have only lost by 12 points, when it really should have been a lot more. They won't take much away from the game, they will just know that they were lucky to hold on to their dignity as England wasted opportunity after opportunity. This will need to change for the English next week as they eye the ***le, they have the good luck to play last, meaning they know what is required in order to win the 6 Nations, and will adapt their game plan accordingly. Who are the favourites to win the tournament? Judging by Scotland's performance against England, the favourites have to be Ireland, with a points difference not much worse than England's and a game against the wooden spoon contenders, if Sexton is firing then they should still take home the ***le in spite of their performance against Wales on Saturday.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I'm an Attwood fan but I think he's third choice after Launch and Lawes. Love his physicality and set piece work, he's just a little bit inconsistent at international level for my money, really good games like Wales followed by poor ones like Italy. He's a good bench option though, and really I'd be very happy with any two locks from those three plus Kruis.

Oh, and Hartley needs to go. If he's throwing poorly, there is pretty much no reason to pick him. I know Youngs isn't absolutely blasting the door down for selection (and Webber is a steaming pile of turd at the moment), but he does offer something around the park, and the main reason for not picking him has always been shaky throwing. Hartley offers very little carrying or at the breakdown, but that has always been overlooked because he was a key part of a really strong lineout unit - which he no longer is.

I did find it quite funny when Youngs made a clean break and was so shocked he just threw the ball backwards to the floor. At the moment I think I'd take him over Hartley. Attwood has disappointed me but I think him and Kruis could give a nice injection of power in the late game against tired sides with Lawes and Launch to start.

Also on the prop situation, Nick Auterac anyone?

 

[Every Time Ref]

I did find it quite funny when Youngs made a clean break and was so shocked he just threw the ball backwards to the floor.

At the time I was drunk and angry, but watching it back today yeah it was pretty funny. I had to question how no-one was with on his shoulder after the break though, a perennial problem both yesterday and in general. If it's Watson or May I get it, maybe not everyone can keep up, but with Ben Youngs it can only be laziness, unfitness or poor reading of the game.

Attwood has disappointed me but I think him and Kruis could give a nice injection of power in the late game against tired sides with Lawes and Launch to start.

I agree, I also think there's some scope for a horses-for-courses approach with the locks we have - maybe consider Lawes and Launchbury the default pairing but, for example, against Australia we might decide we want to play a really set piece orientated game (like we did in the autumn) and start Attwood for that one game.

Also on the prop situation, Nick Auterac anyone?

Yep

 

[goodNumber10]

Also on the prop situation, Nick Auterac anyone?

na! Bath have done enough damage to the squad already

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

na! Bath have done enough damage to the squad already

Or more the squad have done enough damage to Bath, slipped up quite a lot since the 6N started.

 

[goodNumber10]

Or more the squad have done enough damage to Bath, slipped up quite a lot since the 6N started.

I suppose so, but to be fair Bath always go off the boil through Feb & March end up chasing the league in April (having left themselves too much to do).

 

[Peat]

At the time I was drunk and angry, but watching it back today yeah it was pretty funny. I had to question how no-one was with on his shoulder after the break though, a perennial problem both yesterday and in general. If it's Watson or May I get it, maybe not everyone can keep up, but with Ben Youngs it can only be laziness, unfitness or poor reading of the game.

I think he was referring to Tom there, not Ben? At least that fits my memory... stats say Ben only made one clean break, and I think that was him literally strolling through their line before putting Brown in for the nearly but not quite try. And I know Tom Youngs made a clean break with a comedy offload...

... Parling's one to Cowan was half amusing too.

According to ESPN we made 17 clean breaks. The mind boggles.

 

[chippieolamus]

I think he was referring to Tom there, not Ben? At least that fits my memory... stats say Ben only made one clean break, and I think that was him literally strolling through their line before putting Brown in for the nearly but not quite try. And I know Tom Youngs made a clean break with a comedy offload...

... Parling's one to Cowan was half amusing too.

According to ESPN we made 17 clean breaks. The mind boggles.

On the positive side at least we're creating chances, I'd much rather have a team that creates 17 line breaks and scores 3 of them than one that can only make 3 line breaks and manages to score them all.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Also to be fair, one of those tries was basically saved by Brown's boot falling off mid run

 

[Every Time Ref]

I think he was referring to Tom there, not Ben? At least that fits my memory... stats say Ben only made one clean break, and I think that was him literally strolling through their line before putting Brown in for the nearly but not quite try. And I know Tom Youngs made a clean break with a comedy offload...

... Parling's one to Cowan was half amusing too.

According to ESPN we made 17 clean breaks. The mind boggles.

Yes, I meant Tom Youngs.

Also to be fair, one of those tries was basically saved by Brown's boot falling off mid run

I watched the game twice and managed to miss that! Which one?

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I watched the game twice and managed to miss that! Which one?

The one where BEN Youngs offloaded to Brown and as he was running, his boot came off and Hogg caught him.

 

[Peat]

Ben Youngs' break where Hogg caught Brown, right?

As a one-off match, yeah, it's positive to create lots of chances and just be left with the technical issue of finishing them. When you have a pattern where we routinely blow chances, and when you have a team who leak chances all day long and you're still blowing chances, I myself struggle to be positive. We don't consistently make a lot of chances; we do consistently blow a lot of chances.

 

[michaelbolton]

Good to see Guscott calling out SCW on his "I'd play Maro Itoje at 10 with Tuilagi at Hooker" ********.

Clearly not having it :lol:

They're all literally laiughing at him after they back him into a corner and he admits that he'd "probably make the same calls as Lancaster has"... :lol:

Utter ***.

Think I completely missed this... What happened?! Was this on the broadcast? I didn't notice this at all

 

[Every Time Ref]

Oh yeah, just watched it back and noticed. Would he have outpaced Hogg anyway though? I'd say Hogg's significantly quicker than Brown.

As a one-off match, yeah, it's positive to create lots of chances and just be left with the technical issue of finishing them. When you have a pattern where we routinely blow chances, and when you have a team who leak chances all day long and you're still blowing chances, I myself struggle to be positive. We don't consistently make a lot of chances; we do consistently blow a lot of chances.

Very true. I put it down to lack of composure and poor support running. Which also connects to our other repeated problem, slow speed to the breakdown, we're consistently not reading the game well enough or not fit enough or whatever to judge where people are needed and get there.