[2016 RBS Six Nations] Round 2: France vs. Ireland (13/02/2016)

[munstermuffin]

I'd tend to disagree with you. Ross wasn't great since the Argentina game for Leinster (what little time he had) and I thought he would retire at the end of the year. Furlong is probably neck and neck with him atm. Letting Moore go was a huge mistake.
McGrath is far better than Healy atm and, if he continues on his upward trajectory, should make the Lions in 2017. McGrath has to start. He's played excellently in almost every game he's played for Ireland.
We're not too bad in the tight 5, injuries taken into account. McGrath and Best are playing great rugby and McCarthy had 2 very good games against Wales and England. White is meh and Toner has put in a decent shift but is not as good as he was in 2014 and fell off 2 bad tackles on Saturday.
England should beat us in the tight five but I don't think it will be a walkover. Cole seemed rattled for the first 50 odd minutes in the scrum against Italy and Mako isn't that great a scrummager. Lawes isn't playing as well as he can and Hartley is the 2nd best Hooker in England. George should be starting. Kruis, however, has been class so far.

You and corny speaking a lot of sense what's happening lol.

On props your bang on.
On tight 5 your right and wrong. McCarthy may be out (agreed he's played well), Toner and Ryan aren't on top form and well after Dillane we could be hitting Dave Foley or Billy Holland.
But I find it hard to see us win or compete at Twickenham. Can't see it being a hammering but 10-15 point beating.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

This might sound mighty harsh, especially for a Leinster man, but the day Madigan moves to Bordeaux and is forgotten about can't come soon enough.

That's not something I like at all! I think at their very best Madigan is better than Jackson but his consistency is awful. Consistency is something that he just hasn't been given in his career either, he's bounced between playing 10, 12 and 15 and probably hadn't started three games in the same position once in his career, he's met similar fate to McFadden or D'Arcy very early doors. Bordeaux could revitalise his career, give him a season or two solely as a 10 and he could be our starting 10 assuming Sexton has given up after getting injured every game between now and the end of next season. Or else he may just be flakey, time will tell, considering he's my favourite player I hope it's the former.

 

[corny]

Madigan won't ever be as good as Jackson. At the minute its not even close IMO. He's 26 and if he hasn't learned game management now he's never going to.

I can never understand why people always expect him to improve. He'll be 33 one day and still some people will be locked in this mode thinking improvement is just around the corner. Its not.

BTW he was given his chance by MOC in his first season. He didn't take it because he wasn't good enough. O' Connor rightly settled on Gopperth and still there was outrage. Could never understand that.

 

[munstermuffin]

I'd agree with Corny in that Madigan has skill but his skills as a 10 are poor. It's become usual to see him kick restarts out on full, have near interceptions and let back line go ragged. Now when he's good he's very good at running backs but isn't a good 10. Jackson has been consistent and his form for Ulster is brilliant. It's more a case of transferring it to Ireland.

 

[dunney77]

My ideal team for England...


1 - McGrath
2 - Best
3 - Ross
4 - Ryan
5 - Toner
6 - Stander
7 - Van Der Flier
8 - Heaslip

9 - Murray
10 - Sexton
11 - Ringrose
12 - McCloskey
13 - Henshaw
14 - Trimble
15 - Payne

The two-week break gives us the opportunity to put these players into training together as opposed to a 6 day turnaround.

Although we may be slating Ireland at the moment, I think there are enough people coming through the ranks to ensure that we don't get left behind by the likes of England, France and Wales.

Now that the Championship is over for us (I wouldn't want to win a 6N having only won 3 games), it really doesn't matter if we face a comprehensive loss to England. We would just face 3 losses against SA instead if we blood them in in the summer.

I get the sense that other nations' players reserve players who come in really make their mark (clearly evident for England this weekend) when given the chance. Ireland's reserve and form players might as well not bother at this rate because there is lack of trust they can't do the job.

 

[Chistera]

With Ben Arous out, here's my ideal team to face Wales:
1. Poirot
2. Guirado
3. Slimani
4. Maestri, if suspended then Jedrasiak
5. Flanquart
6. Camara
7. Burban
8. Goujon
9. Machenaud
10. Plisson
11. Bonneval
12. Fickou
13. Danty
14. Vakatawa
15. Médard

I hope that all these players will be fit, with the Top 14 fixtures, some of them are going to be playing next weekend, depends on their coaches, but I wouldn't rule out any injury.

As for tactics, our forwards turned in a fine performance against Ireland, save for some stupid shoves on Sexton than the ref didn't catch. Our defensive performance was good, especially compared to what we looked like against Italy.

However, our midfield was inefficient and the ball didn't get the wings enough, that was due to the weather but also to egocentrism at times, Médard ignored an open Vakatawa many times over before his try.

We're still lacking most of our key players and half of our starters have under ten caps but this team is getting together. I'm hoping for a complete performance against the Welsh. The win doesn't really matter, our record is way better than we are, no need to think about the ***le now.

 

[munstermuffin]

My ideal team for England...


1 - McGrath
2 - Best
3 - Ross
4 - Ryan
5 - Toner
6 - Stander
7 - Van Der Flier
8 - Heaslip

9 - Murray
10 - Sexton
11 - Ringrose
12 - McCloskey
13 - Henshaw
14 - Trimble
15 - Payne

The two-week break gives us the opportunity to put these players into training together as opposed to a 6 day turnaround.

Although we may be slating Ireland at the moment, I think there are enough people coming through the ranks to ensure that we don't get left behind by the likes of England, France and Wales.

Now that the Championship is over for us (I wouldn't want to win a 6N having only won 3 games), it really doesn't matter if we face a comprehensive loss to England. We would just face 3 losses against SA instead if we blood them in in the summer.

I get the sense that other nations' players reserve players who come in really make their mark (clearly evident for England this weekend) when given the chance. Ireland's reserve and form players might as well not bother at this rate because there is lack of trust they can't do the job.

I'd agree with most except Ringrose. He earned his form as centre and isn't a winger so no point throwing him there just to fill a spot. He is either in at 13 or he's not. Trimble will be under pressure as he's made a lot of errors but I still think is our most solid defender. I'd expect Earls back to start on wing though.
On backrow I'd nearly remove Heaslip who had a good game vs Wales but was poor vs France and try Stander at 8 and Ruddock at 6.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Madigan won't ever be as good as Jackson. At the minute its not even close IMO. He's 26 and if he hasn't learned game management now he's never going to.

I can never understand why people always expect him to improve. He'll be 33 one day and still some people will be locked in this mode thinking improvement is just around the corner. Its not.

BTW he was given his chance by MOC in his first season. He didn't take it because he wasn't good enough. O' Connor rightly settled on Gopperth and still there was outrage. Could never understand that.

Disagree again, Madigan was never given consistent game time under MO'C and Gopperth was never the better of the two players, they had almost the exact same flaws except Madigan Gould kick goals. Madigan was 23/24 when MO'C came in and it was the perfect time for him to become first choice, but rather than give Madigan 5 to 6 months as the starter MOC constantly chopped and changed resulting in the side that like it didn't know where it was going from week to week that we all knew and all hated.
Madigan was at the helm for almost all of MO'C's early games that made fans think that this guy may not be the useless slob that he looks, the win in Franklins Gardens and hammering the Scarlets at home are the one's that come to mind but, without fail, if Madigan failed to raise the bar from a fantastic performance the next week he would duly be dropped for Gopperth. Compare that to Sexton establishing himself in '08/'09 early that season Cheika would play Sexton 10 with Felipe 12 without fail and to say Sexton struggled would be an understatement, it rightly stopped once we began to reach the business end of the season but Cheika had given Sexton the confidence to know he had a future at 10 in the province and enough game time with a very settled side to fit in seamlessly which is exactly what happened in the HEC semi final that season.
Madigan has the potential to be better than Jackson, had they swapped provinces he almost certainly would be, and if when Madigan goes to Bordeaux he gets consistent gametime at 10 I'd be shocked if by the time he reaches 28 he's not the international standard 10 that he has shown glimpses of the past and he always was touted to be.

- - - Updated - - -

I'd agree with most except Ringrose. He earned his form as centre and isn't a winger so no point throwing him there just to fill a spot. He is either in at 13 or he's not. Trimble will be under pressure as he's made a lot of errors but I still think is our most solid defender. I'd expect Earls back to start on wing though.
On backrow I'd nearly remove Heaslip who had a good game vs Wales but was poor vs France and try Stander at 8 and Ruddock at 6.

Agree with Ringrose but certainly not with Heaslip, if one backrow was to get dropped off the back of last weeks game they'd all have to go, they were terrible individually and as a unit.

 

[MadDog1999]

I was so disappointed with that game. What was with all the injuries anyway? Ya, I understand they had a tough game against Wales but there should have been some sort of measures to ensure less injuries. It had to be some of our best players that got injured, it was very disheartening to see Sean O'brien go down. Ireland really needs to wake up for their game against England. What do ye think?

 

[munstermuffin]

Disagree again, Madigan was never given consistent game time under MO'C and Gopperth was never the better of the two players, they had almost the exact same flaws except Madigan Gould kick goals. Madigan was 23/24 when MO'C came in and it was the perfect time for him to become first choice, but rather than give Madigan 5 to 6 months as the starter MOC constantly chopped and changed resulting in the side that like it didn't know where it was going from week to week that we all knew and all hated.
Madigan was at the helm for almost all of MO'C's early games that made fans think that this guy may not be the useless slob that he looks, the win in Franklins Gardens and hammering the Scarlets at home are the one's that come to mind but, without fail, if Madigan failed to raise the bar from a fantastic performance the next week he would duly be dropped for Gopperth. Compare that to Sexton establishing himself in '08/'09 early that season Cheika would play Sexton 10 with Felipe 12 without fail and to say Sexton struggled would be an understatement, it rightly stopped once we began to reach the business end of the season but Cheika had given Sexton the confidence to know he had a future at 10 in the province and enough game time with a very settled side to fit in seamlessly which is exactly what happened in the HEC semi final that season.
Madigan has the potential to be better than Jackson, had they swapped provinces he almost certainly would be, and if when Madigan goes to Bordeaux he gets consistent gametime at 10 I'd be shocked if by the time he reaches 28 he's not the international standard 10 that he has shown glimpses of the past and he always was touted to be.

- - - Updated - - -


Agree with Ringrose but certainly not with Heaslip, if one backrow was to get dropped off the back of last weeks game they'd all have to go, they were terrible individually and as a unit.

I meant it as in Heaslip hasn't been in superb form. not poor but lets try something new just to see.

 

[dunney77]

I meant it as in Heaslip hasn't been in superb form. not poor but lets try something new just to see.

We are probably one of the most blessed nations for back row strength.

With RWC 2019 in mind, I think POM, SOB and Stander would be pretty formidable.

Any chances of change for England from your sources?

 

[dai_seven]

Injuries are a part of the game and sometimes cannot be avoided. The key is to how to replace injured players and is one that a lot of teams struggle with. You pick your best players who perform well it becomes difficult to leave them out. Any possible replacement doesn't have much of a chance to impress and then your best players get injured and your replacement has got to perform very well.
Then maybe he tries too hard and gets injured and your problem escalates while you try to blood your 3rd/4th choice.
It happened to Wales in the World Cup, now it's Ireland's turn in the 6N.

 

[munstermuffin]

We are probably one of the most blessed nations for back row strength.

With RWC 2019 in mind, I think POM, SOB and Stander would be pretty formidable.

Any chances of change for England from your sources?

Spoke with Zebo yesterday alright after our game with Ospreys but well lads are off for few days to rest up. After that they'll know.
I'm presuming there'll be changes as Rob Kearney is under pressure from media, Dave K is done for season I've heard and SOB very doubtful. the 3 shirt will be open and I think we may see a change in centres.

 

[corny]

Apparently Jared Payne played a full half of rugby with a grade 1 hamstring tear. Hard *******.

 

[Yoshimitsu]

Not really

Apparently Jared Payne played a full half of rugby with a grade 1 hamstring tear. Hard *******.

http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/hamstring-injury/Pages/Introduction.aspx

Every single contact would hurt more than a grade 1 hamstring tear. I've played on through many and the main risk is that they tend to be the forerunner to a much more significant tear if you don't do the sensible thing.

It's hardly this level is it?


"Shelford made his Test debut for the All Blacks later that year against France in a 19â€"7 victory in Toulouse, and then was a notable victim of the infamous "Battle of Nantes" in the second Test. Roughly 20 minutes into the match, he was caught at the bottom of a rather aggressive ruck, and an errant French boot found its way into Shelford's groin, somehow ripping his scrotum and leaving one testicle hanging free. He also lost four teeth in the process. Incredibly, after discovering the injury to his scrotum, he calmly asked the physio to stitch up the tear and returned to the field before a blow to his head left him concussed. He was substituted and watched the remainder of the game from the grandstand where he witnessed the All Blacks lose 16â€"3. To this day Shelford has no memory of the game.[2]"

 

[Tony Manx]

Apparently Jared Payne played a full half of rugby with a grade 1 hamstring tear. Hard *******.

I think that is the most stupid thing that I have heard in a long while if it is true!

I messed up the muscle in my thigh (funnily enough playing rugby league in training) and went to an osteopath who massaged it in order to get me ready for a big, big final match!

It was still painful when they kicked off, my having not been selected due to not being able to run properly!

When I had a scan, I was told that, had I played, I might well have ruptured what was a very bad strain and that it could have required an operation and that the massage had exacerbated not assisted!!

 

[LukeFitzgerald]

Maestri gets nothing. Such ****ing bull****. He thumps Sexton from the blindside like a solid 2-3 seconds after the ball was passed, right in front of Peyper. Should have been at least a yellow card.

However, Paper provokes SOB which causes SOB to smack him in the ribs and gets rightly banned. Can't understand the lack of consistency in terms of refereeing, TMOs, citing, bans etc etc. It's driving me insane.

 

[Peat]

I'll admit to not watching much of Leinster this year but, yeah, I'm aware neither Ross nor Healy are at their peak right now; but I'll definitely take Ross + Furlong over White + Furlong, and probably McGrath + Healy over McGrath + Cronin, particularly as in Schmidt-world McGrath + Cronin is actually just McGrath, and that's not great. You want two great props on each side these days; at the moment, Ireland are playing with one approaching greatness and three various flavours of not great. Start and bench them as you will (I said Healy on bench), but the pairings are probably stronger that way. Maybe harsh on Cronin.

I'm not expecting England to utterly dominate the current Irish tight five in the set-piece but it's certainly not going to go the other way, so Ireland probably aren't going to win by scoring points there.

And on current evidence, they're not going to score points through great attacking play either - and part of that's because the tight five isn't really adding a huge deal in loose play. I think Ireland's current back line is a bit gash, but fact is good back lines look bad when the pack don't deliver and bad back lines will get something if the forwards are punching holes.

But Ross and Healy *might* tip the scales there. Probably not on current form, but there's a bit more hope there.

 

[jomjom]

When was the last good win we had? Or even performance. This 6N has been terrible. During the WC - no words to say about Argentina, we dismantled probably the worst French team of the professional era, so very almost came to losing against Italy, warm ups were muck too.

Last year we hammered Scotland as youd expect, lost to Wales, won a boring tight match against England, won two boring matches against France and Italy... I dont want to be Mr Negative but the more I think about it the more I look for an Irish victory or even valiant defeat in recent times where I was impressed with the performance :huh: Beating England last year was actually a decent enough match, but, not that exciting... Giving Scotland a drubbing was actually good too, but racking up a score against Italy or Scotland is never the same.

Why cant Schmidt recapture the magic of the day we played the All Blacks?

 

[TheOvalBall]

My ideal team for England...


1 - McGrath
2 - Best
3 - Ross
4 - Ryan
5 - Toner
6 - Stander
7 - Van Der Flier
8 - Heaslip

9 - Murray
10 - Sexton
11 - Ringrose
12 - McCloskey
13 - Henshaw
14 - Trimble
15 - Payne

The two-week break gives us the opportunity to put these players into training together as opposed to a 6 day turnaround.

Although we may be slating Ireland at the moment, I think there are enough people coming through the ranks to ensure that we don't get left behind by the likes of England, France and Wales.

Now that the Championship is over for us (I wouldn't want to win a 6N having only won 3 games), it really doesn't matter if we face a comprehensive loss to England. We would just face 3 losses against SA instead if we blood them in in the summer.

I get the sense that other nations' players reserve players who come in really make their mark (clearly evident for England this weekend) when given the chance. Ireland's reserve and form players might as well not bother at this rate because there is lack of trust they can't do the job.

Must say, Stander is proving to be quite a find.

- - - Updated - - -

French crowd = best crowd. Can't remember when was the last time a crowd was that loud for a 6 nations game.

Was great to see!