[2016 Rugby Championship] Australia v South Africa (10/09/2016)

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Should be a cracker, still don't think you guys have the cardio to live with Australia. Plus your home game isn't at home.

I don't have the stats at hand, but i wouldn't be surprised if we have better stats away than at home. I get using twickenham is a ridiculous decision from a fan's perspective, but we are not giving up an inch performance wise in doing so.

And about the cardio comment 2 points: First, i have thought about it and i just don't get it. I refuse to believe the gap between us and AUS/RSA/NZ comes from something as simple as cardio. I simply do not believe that.
If that is the case we need fire the coach on the spot. No questions asked. It'd be the dictionary definition of incompetence.
You cannot, i repeat, you simply cannot, have a cardio problem for over a year (we had the exact same problem against the ABs in 2015). It'd be like buying a world class F1 team and finishing 4 because you didn't have enough money to pay for the gas.

Out of all the problems a team can face, i'd say cardio is one of the easiest to solve.
I have to give them the benefit of doubt and believe it is not cardio.

Second, i am not convinced. You claim we cannot keep up with with Australia's cardio, but we managed to score 22 points on the ABs while Australia best was 9. I'd still rate Australia as favourites, but i wouldn't be very surprised if we managed to sneak a win.

 

[SomeOke]

Eish things are looking dire.
I will continue to chug on and support us but I may have to accept the fact that we are likely going though a Straeuliesque period (or worse) where the Boks can't even comfortably make the top 5.
Well played to Aus I think they looked a lot better (we were lucky to be within 6 lets be honest), can't really think of any area where we were dominant.
Aus vs Argentina will be interesting.

England should thrash us in November!

 

[petite]

No it is not a cardio problem. the pattern of fading in the last 20 min every game has many angles psychological aspects for instance. but I think the main reason is that arg foce their game a lot in order to match up with better sides. it's similar to soccer when teams face bacelona, in order to match their better skill you run a lot more in the end they overwhelm you. on a good day and when the opponent (for argentina is pretty much everybody in the rc) slows down a bit you snatch a win. usually you loose

 

[The Jones Boy]

I like Alberts, he is dangerous when he has players around him who know how to pop up the pass when he is steaming forward at full pace like a wild Rhino he is almost unstoppable 5 metres out from the line. He always crosses the gain line and he is the kind of player other teams look at on the team sheet and think, Hmmmm... that bugger eh, he's gonna be a handful.
However, if the players around him don't get him the ball to run on to then they lose out in a big way because his gift is not given the opportunity to ask big questions of the opposition defence.
The pace of the game will be critical for both teams.
Say what you like about the staffers, when they play us they lift because this IS the old enemy. This is the real deal.
This IS the one the All Blacks and their fans really REALLY want to win.
Same goes for the Bokke and their legion of die hard fans.
The quota system, a new coach trying to stamp his vision on the team and the youth in the squad is making it hard for the Boks to maintain their traditionally lofty place in the world top two, but you just can't count them out from giving a sublime performance of tough unremitting physicality and burning pace out wide.
If the Boks show up with a fire in their belly buoyed up by the spirit of the Pumas they could make this a very interesting encounter for their fans.

 

[kesh]

I don't have the stats at hand, but i wouldn't be surprised if we have better stats away than at home. I get using twickenham is a ridiculous decision from a fan's perspective, but we are not giving up an inch performance wise in doing so.

And about the cardio comment 2 points: First, i have thought about it and i just don't get it. I refuse to believe the gap between us and AUS/RSA/NZ comes from something as simple as cardio. I simply do not believe that.
If that is the case we need fire the coach on the spot. No questions asked. It'd be the dictionary definition of incompetence.
You cannot, i repeat, you simply cannot, have a cardio problem for over a year (we had the exact same problem against the ABs in 2015). It'd be like buying a world class F1 team and finishing 4 because you didn't have enough money to pay for the gas.

Out of all the problems a team can face, i'd say cardio is one of the easiest to solve.
I have to give them the benefit of doubt and believe it is not cardio.

Second, i am not convinced. You claim we cannot keep up with with Australia's cardio, but we managed to score 22 points on the ABs while Australia best was 9. I'd still rate Australia as favourites, but i wouldn't be very surprised if we managed to sneak a win.

Cardio is a bit of a catch all yeah, like petite said, if you're going five rounds with someone and want to knock them out early on you're going to suffer in later rounds if it doesn't pay off. After watching both games it's a hard call as Argentina were monstrous till 57min, that type of one up forwards dominate game is what the Saffers need to get back to to not get a mauling in NZ.

I know a lot don't like the Foley-Cooper combo but it worked really well at times in the first half, they just didn't convert it into points. Also finally winning a game might give them a bit more freedom in their play to get over the line IMO. Though if that 57min Argentina turns up who knows. Looking forward to it.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Well that was horrible to watch. Pity there had to be a winner.

Both teams were horrible.

The less we talk about this game the better!!

I think we will lose by 50+ this coming weekend.

 

[Sotavalta]

I think this Springboks team is almost beyond saving. (Probably a bit harsh)

The sad thing is I was not even really upset or surprised when we lost (I even said on Superbru that we will lose). Maybe I am starting to make peace with losing and that is sad for me.
I don't think there is one team in the top 10 that I will feel confident when we play them.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

No surprises here as well. We simply have too many passengers and in KEY positions as well.

AC is 3/6 now with the prospect of losing at home to Aus and NZ (I take a beating coming up this weekend for granted) which could make it 3/9 and we were lucky to win the three we did. Could've easily gone into the EoYT at 0/9. Very depressing and too familiar for a Stormers supporter although with the Stormers at least we had a formidable defense and Grant kicking above 90% at goal which meant a couple of wins but always going down to teams with a bit of enterprise.

 

[unrated]

I think this Springboks team is almost beyond saving. (Probably a bit harsh)

The sad thing is I was not even really upset or surprised when we lost (I even said on Superbru that we will lose). Maybe I am starting to make peace with losing and that is sad for me.
I don't think there is one team in the top 10 that I will feel confident when we play them.

I think i share a similar sentiment to you. Its sad. Nothing we can do its just the way its going to be for the next four years. You can bet SARU wont make any changes before the world cup.
At what point does SARU actually say: okay guys the results have been consistently bad let review our coaching panel. Do they do it after we achieve a 40% win record maybe 30%. Do they wait to see how bad it gets? or do they try and fix the leaks in the ship before it sinks?.
I know we have the player talent. This is what makes it so much worse to lose. My optimism was severely tested on friday. All my teams lost. Boks lost, The sharks lost , Barcelona lost, Stoke city lost. The wave of disappointment was strong this weekend.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I think i share a similar sentiment to you. Its sad. Nothing we can do its just the way its going to be for the next four years. You can bet SARU wont make any changes before the world cup.
At what point does SARU actually say: okay guys the results have been consistently bad let review our coaching panel. Do they do it after we achieve a 40% win record maybe 30%. Do they wait to see how bad it gets? or do they try and fix the leaks in the ship before it sinks?.
I know we have the player talent. This is what makes it so much worse to lose. My optimism was severely tested on friday. All my teams lost. Boks lost, The sharks lost , Barcelona lost, Stoke city lost. The wave of disappointment was strong this weekend.

For me it was a better weekend than yours as Arsenal won, the Bulls won and Man Utd lost...

But I think you underestimate SARU and what they'll do. Do you honestly think that the local unions will sit idly by and watch us tumble into oblivion? They have a say in what happens at SARU, and just like they have the right to hire and fire people based on performance, so too does SARU, and I have a suspicion that if things doesn't get better very soon, then AC will be on the chopping block just like the case with Andre Markgraaff, Harry Viljoen, Rudolf Straeuli and to some extent Heyneke Meyer.

 

[WaterboySA]

For me it was a better weekend than yours as Arsenal won, the Bulls won and Man Utd lost...

That's just flipping mean!!!

 

[unrated]

For me it was a better weekend than yours as Arsenal won, the Bulls won and Man Utd lost...

But I think you underestimate SARU and what they'll do. Do you honestly think that the local unions will sit idly by and watch us tumble into oblivion? They have a say in what happens at SARU, and just like they have the right to hire and fire people based on performance, so too does SARU, and I have a suspicion that if things doesn't get better very soon, then AC will be on the chopping block just like the case with Andre Markgraaff, Harry Viljoen, Rudolf Straeuli and to some extent Heyneke Meyer.

I honestly dont know what level of power the local unions have over top level decision making such as the national team coach. Maybe i am underestimating SARU and if they prove me wrong i will sincerely apologize. But i do truly believe that AC will be allowed a bad record and still make it to the world cup. IMO no union would publicly back any motion to oust AC there would probably be some backlash. What incentive would the unions have to remove AC? And i get the feeling that if any such move is made that political pressure will sway things in the current managements favour.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I honestly dont know what level of power the local unions have over top level decision making such as the national team coach. Maybe i am underestimating SARU and if they prove me wrong i will sincerely apologize. But i do truly believe that AC will be allowed a bad record and still make it to the world cup. IMO no union would publicly back any motion to oust AC there would probably be some backlash. What incentive would the unions have to remove AC? And i get the feeling that if any such move is made that political pressure will sway things in the current managements favour.

Perhpas not directly with AC, but maybe his support staff.

I think the first 2 that would be on the chopping block would be Mzwandile Stick (the backline coach), and Matthew Proudfoot (Forwards Coach). They have now made the step up to the international scene with very little credential prior to their appointment, and they haven't delivered much positivity in what they are doing.

And the other option is perhaps that maybe they send some more coaches to assist AC. Maybe HM can become something like his technical director, and maybe they need to get a kicking coach to assist us, as we keep on missing easy kicks at goal.

The unions can intervene if they want to, they can even call a special meeting to table their concerns. They can even file a "no-confidence" vote against AC if they want to.

But I think before we get there, we will see something else first in a way where they first try to assist before they throw AC under the bus.

I like AC, and I think he can create a great team, but at the moment there isn't a plan, and the fans are getting agitated.

Beast needs to rest.
Strauss had a better game, but I still think we have better hookers.
PSDT is not a flanker, he's a lock, and too good to stay on the bench.
Mohoje is a good tackler, but that's about it.
Flouw is a bit off the whole season, he needs a rest.
Faf and Elton are becoming worse as the season continues. They were my biggest source of frustration.
De Jongh and Kriel were better than De Allende and Mapoe, but not by a stretch.
Habana is just as much a pedestrian as Strauss.

The only guy who came in to the team and played his heart out was Francois Hougaard.

 

[Ospervat]

If the Boks show up with a fire in their belly buoyed up by the spirit of the Pumas they could make this a very interesting encounter for their fans.

Ordinarily I would agree with you - but unfortunately the fire has been reduced to a luke warm ember.

They have played 6 this year and have a 50% record. Given the quality of opposition in the remaining 6 fixtures of which only 2 are at home I don't see them maintaining that record.
Hopefully they will beat Italy however even this is not a certainty anymore which if they lose will be another first to add to Japan.

I'm not blaming the players, the coaches or any other single entity for this demise.
They are in collective chaos in terms of administration, leadership and skills.

I honestly see them slipping to 6th or even 7th in the world rankings before the end 2016.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/...n-team-as-they-get-set-to-play-the-all-blacks

http://www.sarugbymag.co.za/blog/details/boks-lack-strong-leadership

http://www.sarugbymag.co.za/blog/details/boks-were-abject-all-round

http://www.sarugbymag.co.za/blog/details/fans-deserve-better-from-uninspiring-boks

All these articles pretty much say the same thing....... Why then is SARU not addressing it.

Mediocrity is the new excellence in South African society - and this has finally permeated into South African rugby.

 

[ncurd]

So we think South Africa will stop short by 4 days of making it a decade of undefeated matches against England?

God I hope that's true but it's almost a match we seem to always to conspire to lose. It's an impressive record though nobody has gone undefeated against us for longer in the professional era and the times NZ did it was when we'd play them 2-3 times in the 10 year span.

I'd like to think we'll go this year undefeated but SA are probably our biggest threat.

 

[Sotavalta]

So we think South Africa will stop short by 4 days of making it a decade of undefeated matches against England?

God I hope that's true but it's almost a match we seem to always to conspire to lose. It's an impressive record though nobody has gone undefeated against us for longer in the professional era and the times NZ did it was when we'd play them 2-3 times in the 10 year span.

I'd like to think we'll go this year undefeated but SA are probably our biggest threat.

I honestly can't possibly see how we would win against England. It is almost a guaranteed victory for you guys.

 

[TRF_heineken]

So we think South Africa will stop short by 4 days of making it a decade of undefeated matches against England?

God I hope that's true but it's almost a match we seem to always to conspire to lose. It's an impressive record though nobody has gone undefeated against us for longer in the professional era and the times NZ did it was when we'd play them 2-3 times in the 10 year span.

I'd like to think we'll go this year undefeated but SA are probably our biggest threat.

Well, a lot will change from now until then. For one, a lot of our injured players will be back in the mix and ready to play, who were perhaps first choice players to begin with. The other thing is that some of the players based in Japan might sign new deals in SA, which might put them back on AC's radar.

I also think that we'll change our gameplan from what it is now (not that we really have one now), to assist the conditions in the NH.

 

[The Jones Boy]

Well that was horrible to watch. Pity there had to be a winner.

Both teams were horrible.

The less we talk about this game the better!!.

Cooky said much the same earlier in the thread and you are both right. It was pig of a game.
So many errors caused the flow to drop off.
SA seem to have a lack of infield leadership and they look to be 'lacking any conceivable plan'.

 

[FrenchFan]

Thought Faf De Klerk has been one of best players for SA. Hard to see why he should be benched. Could backfire even worse.

 

[KeyboardWorrier]

Both teams were absolutely dreadful. This is the kind of match where you expect the stadium viewers would have been offered refunds on the way out.

Winning a game without a single Try? Sorry, shouldn't work like that.

The All Blacks are going to absolutely slaughter these teams and as an AB fan it's no fun anymore, the code needs more competition and yet these two teams can barely put five phases together.