[2016 Super Rugby] Hurricanes vs. Sharks (QF) 23/07/2016

[TRF_stormer2010]

Date : Saturday 23 July
Venue : Westpac Stadium, Wellington
Kick Off local: 19.35 (GMT 07.35/ NZ 19.35 / Aus 17.35 / SA 9.35)

Referee: Glen Jackson
Assistant Referees: Nick Briant, Paul Williams
TMO: Glenn Newman


​

Teams:

Hurricanes
15 James Marshall, 14 Cory Jane, 13 Matt Proctor, 12 Willis Halaholo, 11 Jason Woodward, 10 Beauden Barrett, 9 TJ Perenara, 8 Victor Vito, 7 Ardie Savea, 6 Brad Shields, 5 Michael Fatialofa, 4 Vaea Fifita, 3 Ben May, 2 Dane Coles (captain), 1 Loni Uhila

Substitutes: 16 Ricky Riccitelli, 17 Chris Eves, 18 Mike Kainga, 19 Mark Abbott, 20 Callum Gibbins, 21 Jamison Gibson-Park, 22 Vince Aso, 23 Julian Savea

Sharks
15 Willie le Roux, 14 JP Pietersen, 13 Paul Jordaan, 12 Andre Esterhuizen, 11 Lwazi Mvovo, 10. Garth April, 9 Michael Claassens, 8 Philip van der Walt, 7 Jean-Luc du Preez, 6 Keegan Daniel, 5 Stephan Lewies, 4 Etienne Oosthuizen, 3 Coenie Oosthuizen, 2 Franco Marais, 1 Tendai Mtawarira (captain)

Substitutes: 16 Chiliboy Ralepelle, 17 Dale Chadwick, 18 Thomas du Toit, 19 Hyron Andrews, 20 Tera Mtembu, 21 Stefan Ungerer, 22 Curwin Bosch, 23 Odwa Ndungane

 

[unrated]

So Sanzaar has joined the European clubs movement in thinning out Super Rugby squads even further. Why is it that the players you count on to pull your team through are always injured or in this case not eligible to play?
The Sharks has won games where they were even bigger outsiders but back then we had guys like Bismarck and Francois Steyn to pull us out of a hole and make up for the ****ty coaching the team received. Now we have two good assistant coaches in Rob du Preez (attacking) and Omar Mouneimne (Defence) but probably the second worst head coach of all the Super rugby sides in Gary Gold just nudging ahead of the Kings coach and barely losing out to the Jaguares head coach. We had Secret weapons for the finals in Pat Lambie, Willie le Roux , JP Pietersen, Marcel Coetzee and Jacques Potgieter. Unfortunately due to multiple events only JP Pietersen is likely to start with Willie le Roux having an outside chance of getting in the match-day squad.

John Plumtree knows these Sharks players and the Hurricanes was probably one of two teams that the Sharks would have liked to avoid. The other being the Lions.
With all that said the closer the Sharks can pick a starting XV similar to this one the better chance they will have of winning this game.
1.Mtawarira
2.Marais
3.Adriaanse
4. Oosthuizen
5. Lewies
6. D.du Preez
7. J. du Preez
8. van der Walt
9. Ungerer
10. April
11.Pietersen
12. Esterhuizen
13. Jordaan
14. Mvovo
15. le Roux

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

SANZAAR is as full of red tape as they come, yes but IMO the Sharks only have themselves to blame as I understand it. The Stormers will have both Rob du Preez and Jaco Taute available despite them having played less than the 4 games (Du Preez only played a game and a half!) simply because the Stormers administrators issued their squad lists correctly while the Sharks didn't. A bit silly sure but one would expect the administrators to do their jobs properly and do some forward-planning and have all the technicalities ITO paperwork down?

 

[Regan]

Got my tickets to the game, Canes should win this comfortably - I don't think this will be our banana skin game if we have one.

 

[Gena_ZA]

Sorry Sharks, think reality will kick in and we will realize how far behind the average SA teams are
If not, I'll be too intoxicated to watch the other games where we have a more realistic chance to succeed

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Odd. I would have thought that after the regular season people would have learned not to underestimate the sharks. I'd even go as far as saying they'd been the team with the best performance in NZ soil.
Sure, they're not favourites, but i wouldn't write them off.

 

[JohnKA]

Odd. I would have thought that after the regular season people would have learned not to underestimate the sharks. I'd even go as far as saying they'd been the team with the best performance in NZ soil.
Sure, they're not favourites, but i wouldn't write them off.

I like it when the Sharks get written off and then they win we like to be underdogs , but it is very funny how the Stormers even want to have a say they did not face a single NZ team and had a very easy tour and still they could not top the log

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I like it when the Sharks get written off and then they win we like to be underdogs , but it is very funny how the Stormers even want to have a say they did not face a single NZ team and had a very easy tour and still they could not top the log

Gena and I have perfectly valid points though. Lambie woul've been available had the Shark administrators had forethought and the Sharks (as well as the Stormers as Gena implied) have not been at all convincing. The Stormers' somewhat underwhelming season is something totally seperate- no point picking that up as it doesn't address ay of our points made. Don't get me wrong I'm not writing the Sharks off but lets be honest and state the obvious; that the Sharks are underdogs. More power to them. I'm all for provincialism though so don't mind being taken on LOL. It adds to the fun. I might add though that a Sharks supporter should tread lightly in bagging the Stormers or Cheetahs since the Sharks are a mercenary side traditionally made up from these two unions ;P

 

[unrated]

Gena and I have perfectly valid points though. Lambie woul've been available had the Shark administrators had forethought and the Sharks (as well as the Stormers as Gena implied) have not been at all convincing. The Stormers' somewhat underwhelming season is something totally seperate- no point picking that up as it doesn't address ay of our points made. Don't get me wrong I'm not writing the Sharks off but lets be honest and state the obvious; that the Sharks are underdogs. More power to them. I'm all for provincialism though so don't mind being taken on LOL. It adds to the fun. I might add though that a Sharks supporter should tread lightly in bagging the Stormers or Cheetahs since the Sharks are a mercenary side traditionally made up from these two unions ;P

Are you referring to the signings of Bob Skinstad, Percy Montgomery and Ruan Botha? I can only recall those guys as previous Stormers players. As for the Cheetahs players yes they seem to like Durban very much and i sincerely thank them for feeding us its not a bad thing. I would say you should be called a mercenary when you sign players that is in their prime, not when you sign youth players who you think might have the potential to become good. But remember we have got the best youth academy in the country possibly in the southern hemisphere. The sharks made some dumb decisions regarding many of their players this year including Lambie. Hopefully Teichman will appoint people who can do their job. Adriaanse is also out now so we gonna get destroyed in the scrums but as John said when the sharks are written off they usually perform much better.

 

[JohnKA]

Gena and I have perfectly valid points though. Lambie woul've been available had the Shark administrators had forethought and the Sharks (as well as the Stormers as Gena implied) have not been at all convincing. The Stormers' somewhat underwhelming season is something totally seperate- no point picking that up as it doesn't address ay of our points made. Don't get me wrong I'm not writing the Sharks off but lets be honest and state the obvious; that the Sharks are underdogs. More power to them. I'm all for provincialism though so don't mind being taken on LOL. It adds to the fun. I might add though that a Sharks supporter should tread lightly in bagging the Stormers or Cheetahs since the Sharks are a mercenary side traditionally made up from these two unions ;P

Well ... where did jean luc du plessis , Pstd and Robert du preez come from ? ... all we need is a red card and a yellow card then we can play some rugby

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Are you referring to the signings of Bob Skinstad, Percy Montgomery and Ruan Botha? I can only recall those guys as previous Stormers players. As for the Cheetahs players yes they seem to like Durban very much and i sincerely thank them for feeding us its not a bad thing. I would say you should be called a mercenary when you sign players that is in their prime, not when you sign youth players who you think might have the potential to become good. But remember we have got the best youth academy in the country possibly in the southern hemisphere. The sharks made some dumb decisions regarding many of their players this year including Lambie. Hopefully Teichman will appoint people who can do their job. Adriaanse is also out now so we gonna get destroyed in the scrums but as John said when the sharks are written off they usually perform much better.

WP lads born and bred in Durban recently;

1 Thomas du Toit
3 Lourens Adriaanse
4 PS du Toit
10 Garth April
14 JP Petersen
15 Willie le Roux

Having a look at that its not as bad as I had it in mind acually. As a WP supporter I admit I have a bit of a chip on my shoulder about our youth teams getting raided every year and its not just the Sharks, the Bulls are actually the worst! The poor Cheetahs though. If we look at the talent they produced or developed and lost after those guys 'made a name' at the franchize and I'm just going for current players here off the top of my head;

1 Coenie Oosthuizen (Sharks) / Trevor Nyakane (Bulls)
2 Bismarck du Plessis (Sharks -> Montpellier) / Adriaan Strauss (Bulls)
3 WP Nel (some Scottish team) / Jannie du Plessis (Sharks -> Montpellier) / Marcel van der Merwe (Bulls) / Maks van Dyk (France)
4 Francois van der Merwe (Racing 92)
5 Lood de Jager (Bulls) / Flip van der Merwe (Bulls and whereto now?)
I'm not going to count Brussow or Juan Smith as I feel they were at the union for a good length of time and left passed their prime.
6 Lappies Labuschagne (Bulls) / Deon Stegmann (Bulls)
7 Jean Deysel (Sharks)
8 Duane Vermeulen (Stormers) / Philip van der Walt
9 Ruan Pienaar (Sharks -> Ulster)
10 Johan Goosen (Racing 92)
11 Bjorn Basson (Bulls)
12 Frans Steyn (Sharks <-> France) / Rob Ebersohn (Montpellier) / Burger Odendaal (Bulls)
13 Lionel Mapoe (Lions) / Jan Serfontein (Bulls)
14 Cornal Hendricks (Stormers)
15 Willie le Roux (Sharks) / Riaan Viljoen (Sharks-> Japan)

But I suppose its pointless complaining and its a free market.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Are you referring to the signings of Bob Skinstad, Percy Montgomery and Ruan Botha? I can only recall those guys as previous Stormers players. As for the Cheetahs players yes they seem to like Durban very much and i sincerely thank them for feeding us its not a bad thing. I would say you should be called a mercenary when you sign players that is in their prime, not when you sign youth players who you think might have the potential to become good. But remember we have got the best youth academy in the country possibly in the southern hemisphere. The sharks made some dumb decisions regarding many of their players this year including Lambie. Hopefully Teichman will appoint people who can do their job. Adriaanse is also out now so we gonna get destroyed in the scrums but as John said when the sharks are written off they usually perform much better.

The only reason why you have a good youth academy is because you don't have a good university close to the stadium with a high performance centre. Which is the case for the Stormers (UWC and Stellenbosch), Cheetahs (UFS), Lions (Wits & UJ) and Bulls (PUKKE & TUKS). The Bulls for example fund part of the High Performance Centre at LC De Villiers sportsgrounds just down the street from Loftus, and has now a state-of-the-art Gym.

Let's have a look at the current Sharks team, and who of them has played for another franchise/Club/Union:
Chilliboy Ralepelle - Bulls
Coenie Oosthuizen - Cheetahs
Jean Deysel - Lions
Joe Pietersen - Stormers
Ettienne Oosthuizen - Lions
Garth April - WP & Boland & Lions
Lourens Adriaanse - Cheetahs & Griquas
Giant Mtyanda - Lions
Michael Claasens - Cheetahs / Cats
Paul Jordaan - Cheetahs
Phillip van der walt - Cheetahs
Ruan Botha - Stormers
Wandile Mjekevu - Lions
Willie Le Roux - Cheetahs

Yup... That many!

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Well ... where did jean luc du plessis , Pstd and Robert du preez come from ? ... all we need is a red card and a yellow card then we can play some rugby

Cape Town, Cape Town and yes, Durban. Jean-Luc and Pieter-Steph are as Cape as they come. They were born here, schooled here, groomed here, have their families here. In fact both teir families are something of an institution here and I visit the Du Toit farm for my olives. the fact they got offerefd contracts earlier for the Sharks than what WP did does not change that they are 'Cape products' IMO. How many games did either of those two play for the Sharks, Sharks academy or Natal schools teams? You can only claim Rob du Preez.

Just to qualify my posts; I don't mean to offend, only to mildly irritate in the name of good fun as its Wednesday morning and we're all bored waiting for the weekend's action. that's why I made sure to include the ;P in my first dig.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Cape Town, Cape Town and yes, Durban. Jean-Luc and Pieter-Steph are as Cape as they come. They were born here, schooled here, groomed here, have their families here. In fact both teir families are something of an institution here and I visit the Du Toit farm for my olives. the fact they got offerefd contracts earlier for the Sharks than what WP did does not change that they are 'Cape products' IMO. How many games did either of those two play for the Sharks, Sharks academy or Natal schools teams? You can only claim Rob du Preez.

Just to qualify my posts; I don't mean to offend, only to mildly irritate in the name of good fun as its Wednesday morning and we're all bored waiting for the weekend's action. that's why I made sure to include the ;P in my first dig.

If we go to schoolboy teams and craven week teams, then the picture looks very dark for the Sharks. I think only Thomas Du Toit, Pat Lambie and Stephan Lewies would qualify as an out and out Shark. But that's because the Sharks do their scouting at Craven week and work from there, which is maybe a different way to go about. Look at Heimar Williams, he was in Affies, and landed up in Durbs...

 

[unrated]

This is not about where they are born but rather what team brought them through their ranks and developed the player. Lionel Messi was born in Argentina but everyone considers him a product of the Barca youth academy.
The du Preez twins played their high school rugby at kearsny college in Durban. Then got picked straight into the sharks team. There is no case that they are not home grown.
Beast was grown and developed at the Sharks academy.
Marcel Coetzee went to Port Natal in durban and went straight to the sharks
Keegan Daniel is a product of the eastern cape but can you remember him playing for any other team than the sharks?
Cobus Reinacht originally came fro the cheetahs but was molded in the sharks xv squad that played in the vodacom cup then brought into our Super rugby.
Jp Pietersen is another homegrown player. Played his debut match as a 19 year old for the sharks.
Lwazi Mvovo never played for another club than the sharks.

I agree about the Sharks craven week situation. Things are looking bad.

 

[TRF_heineken]

This is not about where they are born but rather what team brought them through their ranks and developed the player. Lionel Messi was born in Argentina but everyone considers him a product of the Barca youth academy.
The du Preez twins played their high school rugby at kearsny college in Durban. Then got picked straight into the sharks team. There is no case that they are not home grown.
Beast was grown and developed at the Sharks academy.
Marcel Coetzee went to Port Natal in durban and went straight to the sharks
Keegan Daniel is a product of the eastern cape but can you remember him playing for any other team than the sharks?
Cobus Reinacht originally came fro the cheetahs but was molded in the sharks xv squad that played in the vodacom cup then brought into our Super rugby.
Jp Pietersen is another homegrown player. Played his debut match as a 19 year old for the sharks.
Lwazi Mvovo never played for another club than the sharks.

I agree about the Sharks craven week situation. Things are looking bad.

Fair enough, but it does sound warning sirens when not even half of your squad are homegrown, yet you boast about having the best youth academy in the Country. One of our office's name partner's son was at the Sharks academy and he left to join the Leopards of all teams as they were paying more, cared more about his well-being, and actually arranged matches to play in.

All those players you mentioned are homegrown Natal players, but they are just 8 players out of a squad of 31+... Even the Bulls and Stormers who are the teams that are the most busy when it comes to buying players, can boast that they have the majority of their players homegrown.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I wouldn't know if I'd call JPP a homegrown player myself. I suppose it depends how one looks at things. take a guy like Siya Kolisi. Born and schooled in the EP. Made his debut for us at near enough the same age as JPP for the Sharks and hasn't played for another team. I would certainly call him a Stormers player just as I'd call JPP an out-and-out Sharks player but I wouldn't use terms such as homegrown, born and raised/developed etc.

Look it all counts for nothing at the end of the day and the Sharks have a very professional setup and has one of the better track records in SR of SA sides and we are in the pro era in a decidedly free market. I was just poking a bit of fun at Sharks supporters in general. So what if the Sharks can spot talent and act early in securing the services of talented youngsters that might not get game elsewhere. We all know the WPRU make a habit of letting local talent slip through our fingers;

Time for a XV! Players with a WP connection that never actually played for us (born, schooled, academy, Boland or made the senior side but never got oppotunity) with a bench;

1 Thomas du Toit / Guthro Steenkamp
2 Ashley Johnson
3 WP Nel
4 Bernard le Roux
5 Juandre Kruger
6 CJ Stander
7
8 Josh Strauss
9 Francois Hougaard
10 Handre Pollard / Morne Steyn
11 Ruan Combrinck
12
13 JP Pietersen
14 Cornal Hendricks
15 Willie le Roux / SP Marais

I'll get back to it when I have the time but you get my point. I could make a XV that would challenge our national side out of players developed in our area that the WPRU just weren't interested enough in.

 

[Jaguares]

Canes line-up:

James Marshall, Cory Jane, Matt Proctor, Willis Halaholo, Jason Woodward, Beauden Barrett, TJ Perenara, Victor Vito, Ardie Savea, Brad Shields, Michael Fatialofa, Vaea Fifita, Ben May, Dane Coles (c), Loni Uhila.

Reserves: Ricky Riccitelli, Chris Eves, Mike Kainga, Mark Abbott, Callum Gibbins, Jamison Gibson-Park, Vince Aso, Julian Savea

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Canes line-up:

James Marshall, Cory Jane, Matt Proctor, Willis Halaholo, Jason Woodward, Beauden Barrett, TJ Perenara, Victor Vito, Ardie Savea, Brad Shields, Michael Fatialofa, Vaea Fifita, Ben May, Dane Coles (c), Loni Uhila.

Reserves: Ricky Riccitelli, Chris Eves, Mike Kainga, Mark Abbott, Callum Gibbins, Jamison Gibson-Park, Vince Aso, Julian Savea

That 'Canes line-up does not look as daunting on paper as I thought it might. Guess its to be expected at the end of a long campaign. If Lambie were available I might've gone as far as calling the Sharks favorites but I suppose they wouldn't have liked that tag in any case.

I am really looking forward to next year. I have an idea the SA sides underperforming is in part true, in part perception and in part due to a bit of RWC hangover. This year the Sharks have had a new coach, Beast is the only remaining player from their pack of last year and they've gone through the season withut their Bok halves pair f Reinach and Lambie. I'm sure more time together, a year of SR under the belt for their young pack and their halves back will serve them well next year. Same for the Bulls. New pack, new coach, without their best backline players (Pollard whole season, Hougaard with 7s and Serfontein and Kriel with limited gametime). The Stormers basically didn't have a coach until SR started with Eddie Jones pulling out and we've been playing with a 2nd string backline the entire season; Vermaak and Du Preez had only 2 games and then long term injury, Senatla, Kolbe and De Jongh are with the SA 7s team and we had precious little game from De Jongh and Kolbe while Hendricks has even featured with his illness while De Allende has had half a season and its taken him that long to look like his getting back into form. We'll have 4 highly competitive teams next year. We all know the Kings aren't up to scratch but them and the format we'll have to live with for at least next year still but it seems the tournament organizers are taking feedback seriously looking at 2018 and beynd.

 

[TRF_heineken]

One thing we have to keep in mind is that this is now the knockout rounds, and here Gary Gold has the upper hand IMHO. Plumtree might know the Sharks well, but he has been criticised in the past of not getting his team to close out games.

The Sharks can now play to their strengths which were pretty successful when they were on tour in NZ earlier in the year. If they defend like they did, and take the points on offer, they actually have a pretty good chance of winning the match. The question is though if the tired bodies will be able to keep it up for 80 minutes?