[2017 RBS Six Nations] Round 2: Wales vs England (11/02/2017)

[Maverick1987]

http://www.skysports.com/share/10761713

Here the article for the roof

 

[ratsapprentice]

Does closing the roof make any difference to playing conditions on a calm, dry day?

Temperature and moisture content probably, but not significantly, I'd imagine.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I also fundamentally believe that rugby is an outdoor sport and if it rains you should play in the rain

Quite right. Outdoors in all weathers on grass, you know the stuff that cows eat. None of this synthetic nonsense.

The roof should only be used during a game if there is a risk that it would otherwise have to be postponed. If the Welsh want "atmosphere" they should just sing a little bit louder. I've been there once and it was slightly odd being indoors.

 

[die_mole]

home team should be able to do what they want, if they want to spend the cash to control the environment more power to them

but yeah **** artifical turf

 

[smartcooky]

That law above isn't. Bit the ball was already out. Iv seen that allowed by loads of refs.

If you want that level of finer point you'll have to talk to @smartcooky or similar.

I'd argue that until the ball is lifted it would still be considered as 'coming out the ruck'. Although its probably to do with the area around the ruck that your not allowed to dive on the ball.

Its a judgement call by the referee. He has to decide whether the ball is "near" (near is defined in the Laws as closer than 1m)

At a ruck, the ball is still "in the ruck" if it is not completely behind the last foot of the last player in the ruck. The SH having his hands on the ball does NOT mean it is out of the ruck; it must be lifted by him.

In our part of the world, we go even further than that, we say that the ball has to be "completely clear of bodies in the ruck" as this NSWRU referee training video shows....



Ask yourself this, do you really want players near a ruck hovering ready to jump on the ball the moment its available. If you do, make sure you understand what you are wishing for, because you might not like the likely result.... lots of scrappy play around the ruck area

 

[die_mole]

Its a judgement call by the referee. He has to decide whether the ball is "near" (near is defined in the Laws as closer than 1m)

At a ruck, the ball is still "in the ruck" if it is not completely behind the last foot of the last player in the ruck. The SH having his hands on the ball does NOT mean it is out of the ruck; it must be lifted by him.

In our part of the world, we go even further than that, we say that the ball has to be "completely clear of bodies in the ruck" as this NSWRU referee training video shows....



Ask yourself this, do you really want players near a ruck hovering ready to jump on the ball the moment its available. If you do, make sure you understand what you are wishing for, because you might not like the likely result.... lots of scrappy play around the ruck area

i just wish "is coming out of a ruck" was more clearly defined

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I looked back, I think it was the wrong decision.

Here the ref says "It's out" to indicate Hughes is ok to pick it up

And here is the position of the ball just before Wood dives on it. I don't see how a ref could say it's out and then looking at the position of the ball say it is "emerging" from the ruck. It's at the scrum halves back foot! If WR directives state a metre then the call was wrong as that is clearly more than a metre from the ruck.

 

[TheSaffycen]

I thought the ref said the ball is out, then by that it isn't coming out the ruck then?

 

[ratsapprentice]

It's at the scrum halves back foot!

The ball being at the half-back's foot is a pretty clear indication to me, that the ball is still in the vicinity of the ruck.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

The ball being at the half-back's foot is a pretty clear indication to me, that the ball is still in the vicinity of the ruck.

Not when he is standing side on with his legs wide apart and his front foot not even level with where the ball was placed it isn't... So now "emerging from the ruck" becomes "in the vicinity of the ruck" even when it is over a metre away...

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

After being flatten by the English scrum, the Welsh Medics get to work on Francis

 

[ratsapprentice]

Not when he is standing side on with his legs wide apart and his front foot not even level with where the ball was placed it isn't... So now "emerging from the ruck" becomes "in the vicinity of the ruck" even when it is over a metre away...

I'm not sure what to say. "Emerging from the ruck" effectively means "in the vicinity of".

They aren't allowed to dive on it, they should know that. Hopefully they wont do it again.

- - - Updated - - -

After being flatten by the English scrum, the Welsh Medics get to work on Francis

They revive him by wafting a bag of Taylors under his nose.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I'm not sure what to say. "Emerging from the ruck" effectively means "in the vicinity of".

They aren't allowed to dive on it, they should know that. Hopefully they wont do it again.

It really doesn't. According to what Smartcooky said, the law specifies 1m and the ball was clearly more than 1m from the ruck. If the ball is "out" of the ruck when Hughes tries to pick it up, how can it then be "emerging" when it is then almost a metre further away from where it was placed? When have you ever known something to emerge AFTER it was out? Also bearing in mind that picture is when Wood begins to dive, when he lands the ball is actually behind the scrumhalf. Do we now extend the ruck all the way from where it is placed to past the scrumhalf and a bit more?

 

[die_mole]

It really doesn't. According to what Smartcooky said, the law specifies 1m and the ball was clearly more than 1m from the ruck. If the ball is "out" of the ruck when Hughes tries to pick it up, how can it then be "emerging" when it is then almost a metre further away from where it was placed? When have you ever known something to emerge AFTER it was out? Also bearing in mind that picture is when Wood begins to dive, when he lands the ball is actually behind the scrumhalf. Do we now extend the ruck all the way from where it is placed to past the scrumhalf and a bit more?

within 1m is the definition of near. but near does not appear in the laws violated

it is whatever the referee determines to be "coming out of" or "as it comes out"

you can't question the referees knowledge of the law, but you can certainly question what he thinks coming out of is

cause it definitely touched two players after he said it was out

 

[ratsapprentice]

The law doesn't specify 1m.

Once it is out from the hindmost foot, it's "out", until it leaves the vicinity of the ruck it's also still "emerging".

It's not really about how many players have touched it, it's about where it is in relation to the ruck.

It's simple - unless the ball has been kicked/knocked away from the ruck a considerable distance - pick it up, don't flop on it.

 

[die_mole]

The law doesn't specify 1m.

Once it is out from the hindmost foot, it's "out", until it leaves the vicinity of the ruck it's also still "emerging".

It's not really about how many players have touched it, it's about where it is in relation to the ruck.

It's simple - unless the ball has been kicked/knocked away from the ruck a considerable distance - pick it up, don't flop on it.

completely agree with you italicized part, i just think the law could be improved

 

[ratsapprentice]

Maybe, but it's a fairly rare penalty and I don't think it's particularly convoluted.

Players just need to be aware of it.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

We are now defining "emerging" from the ruck as 1.5-2m from where it was placed and behind the back foot of the scrum half... Tom Wood may have been aware but, like me thought the ball was far enough away and the fact it was behind the scrum half along with the ref saying it was out as all being sufficient to dive on it to ensure he got possession rather than trying to pick it up and risk knocking it on...

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Why not post this stuff in the England v France thread?

 

[ratsapprentice]

It was not behind the scrum half, and it was nowhere near two metres behind the hindmost foot. 1 metre tops.

And yes - the ball was still emerging from the ruck.

I'm fairly confident Wood was not at all aware of the law, because he asked the ref to explain it to him.