[2017 RBS Six Nations] Round 4: Wales v Ireland (11/02/2017)

[Groundhog]

Another England thread hijacked by a triggered Irishman. Please **** off to the Ireland Wales thread

Well we sure did try.
Watch some more of Wayne Barnes and don't come flying in with your angry little peckers out before you cry foul. There's plenty of bad refs, and while he's capable of great calls he constantly referees without consistency for both sides. Doesn't just happen to us, but we have some pretty notable cases. He's not biased, just incompetent and worse inconsistent with his calls. I don't think he will affect the result because unlike some I don't spend 80 minutes whining about the ref, but he's poor and I have no time for him.

 

[ALJ]

No more ironic than an English fan compromised by the fact the man in question is English no.

Quite a lot more ironic really.

You really think I'd be moved to voice my support of a ref because we're from the same country? Laughable.

My point is more general - international referees are not biased and if they were, I'm pretty sure the assessors, media, etc, etc would be on it.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Quite a lot more ironic really.

You really think I'd be moved to voice my support of a ref because we're from the same country? Laughable.

My point is more general - international referees are not biased and if they were, I'm pretty sure the assessors, media, etc, etc would be on it.

Equally laughable is that you thinking a fan can't show any objectivity whatsoever to the point you can't take it seriously to be honest...

 

[welshoptimist]

Equally laughable is that you thinking a fan can't show any objectivity whatsoever to the point you can't take it seriously to be honest...

sorry to say this but i think wales will win this one, simply because we have messed up our chances at winning the championship, so of course we will have a great performance and inadvertently help the English to the ***le, its the welsh way

 

[munstermuffin]

I'll be gammered a bit but He's don't mind Barnes. Don't think he will be issue tomorrow

 

[corny]

You really think I'd be moved to voice my support of a ref because we're from the same country? Laughable.

Sure you don't even remember the game in question. Something moved you to sneer. What else could it be?

 

[martinspoonboy1]

Barnes is the second best referee in the world after Nige. He's made a mistake or two but overall he's quality and has improved massively over the time he's been on the international stage. Beats Craig 'I'm still running from angry scots' Joubert and Steve 'wish I was a YouTube vlogger' Walsh hands down! His communications with the players is second to none.

 

[ALJ]

Equally laughable is that you thinking a fan can't show any objectivity whatsoever to the point you can't take it seriously to be honest...

It is laughable to say a fan can't show any objectivity but then i didn't say that.
What I said was he isn't being objective about this point.

To accuse an official of bias is to accuse them of cheating and that is as bad as it gets.

So what do you think is more likely:
That the ref cheated and nobody other than Irish fans noticed - not neutral fans, governing bodies, media, etc? (And I was moved to defend him because we happen to share a country of birth).

Or

An impassioned fan is left with a subjective view of a game which went against them?

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Sure you don't even remember the game in question. Something moved you to sneer. What else could it be?

I'm not sneering mate, I'm saying that internationals refs are not biased and if one was actually biased (cheating) I believe that others would have noticed.

As it is, it seems that only fans of the 'wronged' side have the inside track.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Edit: Decided Against arguing further... Pointless

 

[corny]

It is laughable to say a fan can't show any objectivity but then i didn't say that.
What I said was he isn't being objective about this point.

To accuse an official of bias is to accuse them of cheating and that is as bad as it gets.

So what do you think is more likely:
That the ref cheated and nobody other than Irish fans noticed - not neutral fans, governing bodies, media, etc? (And I was moved to defend him because we happen to share a country of birth).

Or

An impassioned fan is left with a subjective view of a game which went against them?

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I'm not sneering mate, I'm saying that internationals refs are not biased and if one was actually biased (cheating) I believe that others would have noticed.

As it is, it seems that only fans of the 'wronged' side have the inside track.

Yeah you did sneer but i'll live with it.

I accused no one of concious bias or cheating. Those are your words and your goalposts.

I said Barnes refereed one team one way and the other team another way. You're not in a position to contradict that so your 'general' points make no impact on me.

Anyway, the real irony is Barnes was actually dropped before from the Elite panel (2012 i think) for his performance in an Ireland V Wales game. People do notice yeah.

Edit: Quick google. https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2012/mar/24/england-referees-elite-panel

 

[Jockstap]

Barnes is the second best referee in the world after Nige. He's made a mistake or two but overall he's quality and has improved massively over the time he's been on the international stage. Beats Craig 'I'm still running from angry scots' Joubert and Steve 'wish I was a YouTube vlogger' Walsh hands down! His communications with the players is second to none.

It's funny how one sentence can make you disregard all future comments from a person.

 

[welshoptimist]

It's funny how one sentence can make you disregard all future comments from a person.

haha quote of the day that joubert moment was aweful, don't think i have ever felt more wronged in a game, and I'm only half Scottish XD
actually i quite like marias and jaco piper above barns

 

[martinspoonboy1]

It's funny how one sentence can make you disregard all future comments from a person.

That's perfectly fine by me. I'm not pandering for your approval bud!

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Some interesting world ranking permutations going into the final two weekends if the unlikely happens and both Wales and Scotland win this weekend, that would give Wales a second seed spot and leave Ireland requiring a win in Dublin to guarantee a top seed ahead of the Scots.

If Ireland win we're safe in 4th but won't rise any higher, presumably getting within a scrum half's dick length of Aus and the same again from England if we win in Dublin but it would set the Wales France match as a straigh shoot out for a second seed spot. Assuming Scotland don't lose to Italy they won't drop and I don't think England can move no matter what happens.

 

[martinspoonboy1]

Back to what actually matters.

The only way I can see Wales winning this is if they can get some sort of parity up front, their set piece is immaculate and if they take their chances when it's on. A pretty big if, considering what we've seen so far.

I think in the backs Scott Williams will be as key as Biggar. His pass for Liam Williams for their opening try vs Scotland was exceptional. After this he was fairly anonymous. (Not neccessarily his fault). If he chooses the right option when it is on and makes it over the advantage line when it's not, Wales will have a much greater chance of scoring a few tries. They'll probably need to score atleast 3 to have a chance of winning this game.

Read earlier that they haven't lost 3 games in a row in the 6N since 2003! Will pride and the thought of falling into the third pool be enough to see them through? Will the criticism from Edwards spur them on or knock their confidence further. Time will tell, but I'd say Wales should be at a handicap of +6 as opposed to +3 as it is now.

Ireland's discipline throughtout the Autumn and for the most part during the first 3 rounds has been exceptional, so Wales aren't going to win by the boot of HP alone.

 

[Saint4805]

Back to what actually matters.

I think in the backs Scott Williams will be as key as Biggar. His pass for Liam Williams for their opening try vs Scotland was exceptional.

You can only use phrases like 'Back to what matters actually' when you get your facts right in the first place. It was Halfpenny who set up Liam Williams and it was the quick tap and go from Webb that set the whole thing up. Scott Williams was merely an extra.

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Some interesting world ranking permutations going into the final two weekends if the unlikely happens and both Wales and Scotland win this weekend, that would give Wales a second seed spot and leave Ireland requiring a win in Dublin to guarantee a top seed ahead of the Scots.

If Ireland win we're safe in 4th but won't rise any higher, presumably getting within a scrum half's dick length of Aus and the same again from England if we win in Dublin but it would set the Wales France match as a straigh shoot out for a second seed spot. Assuming Scotland don't lose to Italy they won't drop and I don't think England can move no matter what happens.

Very interesting. Never realised we were in with an (albeit unlikely) shot at top seeds but top 8 is pretty decent all things considered. Some interesting permutations indeed.

 

[ThebigARena]

Some interesting world ranking permutations going into the final two weekends if the unlikely happens and both Wales and Scotland win this weekend, that would give Wales a second seed spot and leave Ireland requiring a win in Dublin to guarantee a top seed ahead of the Scots.

If Ireland win we're safe in 4th but won't rise any higher, presumably getting within a scrum half's dick length of Aus and the same again from England if we win in Dublin but it would set the Wales France match as a straigh shoot out for a second seed spot. Assuming Scotland don't lose to Italy they won't drop and I don't think England can move no matter what happens.

From reading the last couple of pages on this thread If Wales manage to win it will be because of some horrendous referring from Barnes right?

Not to worry though pal, even if the ref is on our side I still don't see us winning not because our players ain't capable but because of howleys inability as a coach and a lack of reading a game and making vital changes when needed

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There's only a handful of players in this side that are in form and playing with some confidence , Webb, biggar, both Williams , Moriarty. Webb can influence a game when he's on form the issue is the rest of the team barring the ones I've mentioned are not on his wavelength and are slow to react to his breaks hence he gets isolated , this is what happens when a team is lacking confidence at any form, you get good individual performances but bad team cohesion , hence why changes were needed badly

 

[martinspoonboy1]

You can only use phrases like 'Back to what matters actually' when you get your facts right in the first place. It was Halfpenny who set up Liam Williams and it was the quick tap and go from Webb that set the whole thing up. Scott Williams was merely an extra.

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.

It's Scott Williams pass that makes the try. It's bang infront of halfpenny and he shuffles it on for Liam.
1:03

https://youtu.be/iBv69DihgiY

Pet hate is when people look to pick up on a minor point (and either misunderstand or get it wrong) and ignore the wider point being made entirely.

Scott Williams is key to the backline functioning was my point. His distribution to the back 3 and his decision making will be key. Do you have anything constructive to say on that point?

And I said back to the point that matters because talking about referees before a match based on the calls they may or may not make seems like a bit of a waste. Instead of getting into a spiral about whether Barnes is good or not, let's talk about the fun and exciting stuff . The rugby! Cool?

 

[dullonien]

There's only a handful of players in this side that are in form and playing with some confidence , Webb, biggar, both Williams , Moriarty. Webb can influence a game when he's on form the issue is the rest of the team barring the ones I've mentioned are not on his wavelength and are slow to react to his breaks hence he gets isolated , this is what happens when a team is lacking confidence at any form, you get good individual performances but bad team cohesion , hence why changes were needed badly

My list of in-form players would differ slightly from yours:

Ken Owens - exceptional against England, one of the better players v Scotland.

Sam Warburton - Wales' best player thus far this tournament, although quiet in the second half v Scotland.

Moriarty - excellent defensively v England, much quieter v Scotland, whilst his stats for carrying the ball are actually pretty poor.

Webb - Wales' creative spark, but things aren't quite going his way just yet. Maybe this game.

Davies - Wales' best back (one costly kick v England aside). Just needs to find support (or support find him) after making the telling break.

Williams - not at his very best Imo, but scoring try's.

Biggar's attacking play has been far too poor to feature on this list, even if his defense has been exceptional.

 

[TommiG88]

I've predicted the correct result bar the Scotland Ireland game this 6 nations.

And I think my streak will carry on. I think Ireland will win, and quite comfortably in the end.

The Welsh are a bit like English football fans. Blaming "past it" players and coaches on not getting the youth in.... I could go on.

Nonetheless, I would have definitely brought in Faletau and Charteris for this game.