[2017 RBS Six Nations] Round 5: Ireland vs England (18/03/2017)

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Where England may hurt us is out wide. They know Farrell Sr structures. Also we are defensively defending very narrow and they have gas out wide. Daly has really impressed.

Farrell Sr has structures? I thought it was just "Don't give away a penalty or I'll smash your face in"

 

[Maverick1987]

I think the Argentina tour this year is a great opportunity too. With a good number of the starters likely to be touring it gives a chance to some of the newer players. Agreed that it's not an easy tour, but I like the idea of bringing a good number of players through into a successful team with a winning mentality and relatively little expectation (all the top players are at the Lions). That said, win this weekend and no players want to come in and be responsible for breaking the winning streak!

If we are going to lose a game this year then I'd rather it be in the summer against Argentina so we can get this world record monkey off our back . The ideal time would be the last game of the series imo . So we can win the series 2-1 (I'm guessing it's a 3 test series ?) The longer it goes on for the more pressure the team will be under ....

 

[munstermuffin]

Farrell Sr has structures? I thought it was just "Don't give away a penalty or I'll smash your face in"

Ha he has structures but I think he's better suited to club rugby. Suited us in Munster last year but is very narrow with Irish defensive system

 

[ncurd]

Farrell Sr has structures? I thought it was just "Don't give away a penalty or I'll smash your face in"

Also "What's this breakdown of which you speak? Blindside Flankers are the salt of the Earth we should play them in the centres as on both flanks"

- - - Updated - - -

Also very surprised Nowell was dropped for Watson I'd have betted on Daly whilst personal preference would of been Brown

 

[Wendigo7]

Looks like Eddie has gone for a strong in the air back 3.

Vunipola to do hard yards and Hughes is suspect with regards to a potential choke tackle. Alot of sensible choices from Eddie.

Rumoured no changes from Ireland and McFadden as 23. What does McFadden bring that Sweetnam or Byrne doesn't?

 

[Goodey]

If we are going to lose a game this year then I'd rather it be in the summer against Argentina so we can get this world record monkey off our back . The ideal time would be the last game of the series imo . So we can win the series 2-1 (I'm guessing it's a 3 test series ?) The longer it goes on for the more pressure the team will be under ....

It's a two test series and i think it's extremely unlikely Argentina will win a game as they'll not be playing their Jaguares players.

 

[ALJ]

Farrell Sr has structures? I thought it was just "Don't give away a penalty or I'll smash your face in"

You're thinking of Edwards


I like the look of the side, although I'm surprised to see Daly back over Nowell - I don't know that I feel strongly either way tbh but Nowell played well last week (albeit I think he lacks as a true attacking threat).
Seems Jones really does consider that Daly is so good he has to play.

 

[Goodey]

I like the look of the side, although I'm surprised to see Daly back over Nowell - I don't know that I feel strongly either way tbh but Nowell played well last week (albeit I think he lacks as a true attacking threat).
Seems Jones really does consider that Daly is so good he has to play.

This is just it, and that's despite making it clear he sees him as 'an extra centre' and not a long term wing or fullback.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Nowell should be starting.

Pleased to see Binny starting, surprised Mako isn't. Marler deserves his spot, his forms been good, but he's played a whole lot of minutes and we've a good player to switch around with.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

VdF is out too, if either were available and SOB was getting picked I would be annoyed, as is CJ and Heaslip are playing well and we have SOB or the guy who is 4th choice 7 in a full strength Leinster squad, it shows we need to spread our talent in the provinces a wee bit but nothing more!

Do you expect an aerial onslaught, I know Jones said there would be but it was just a throw away comment. Ireland have kicked 96 times compared to England's 94 this tournament with less garryowens in the games Sexto has played.

That makes sense, I was getting confused with the relative lack of complaints about O'Brien place. Because if you look at Ireland, a number of guys have played at 7 over the last few years. You can put some but not all of that down to injury..

Jordy Murphy
Josh Van De Flier
Sean O'Brien
Rhys Ruddock
Tommy O'Donnell

Still further back there's obviously Chris Henry.

These changes wouldn't be surprising for someone like Scotland who have tried all sorts of things over the last 5 years but for a team as settled and consistent as Ireland its a big deal. With all fit, I reckon Schmidt would be in a quandry..

 

[MarkyH]

Nowell should be starting.

Pleased to see Binny starting, surprised Mako isn't. Marler deserves his spot, his forms been good, but he's played a whole lot of minutes and we've a good player to switch around with.

Totally agree with this. Marler's done really well. I also think with Mako coming on in the 2nd and doing some hard carries in the tight it should enable Hughes to come on and show what he can do in the loose and in wider channels. I hope anyway

 

[munstermuffin]

Fair play Schmidt. You've shaken it up and drserve credit. This is what I wanted a reaction from coach. If we loose but look like there is improvements I'm happy

 

[Amiga500]

Finally.

We'll see how much better our attacking game is now with a real threat at 15.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Happy enough with that Eng side. Very powerful back 5 of the scrum. I'd always find a place for Watson if his form's anything like; tough on Nowell, but he's a great bench option.

On the other bits earlier in the thread....

I sometimes think when people talk about the NH falling short of the wonderful ball handling SH, they actually mean the ABs. Aus blow hot and cold and have been beaten plenty of times by the NH (well Eng anyway.....and if some of those were solely through the forwards, so what? The scoreboard is sole arbiter, there are no marks for artistic impression and Aus have often played the looser game only out of necessity as their pack was cr*p). Ignoring SA's current woes, they've always been forward oriented. So the question isn't how can the NH catch the SH, its how can the NH and the rest of the SH catch the ABs. And as I said on another thread its maximising your strengths, not trying to mimic theirs.

Re bringing players in, it really shouldn't be difficult via the bench these days. 10 mins here, 20 there. The ABs were the model - the 2015 side was uber experienced, yet there were players with 20 or 30 caps or more waiting to take over. You can experiment through the bench, but a starting shirt should only change hands if someone's made a compelling case that they're better. Although you need to avoid teams getting old together, experience and cohesion counts.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Happy enough with that Eng side. Very powerful back 5 of the scrum. I'd always find a place for Watson if his form's anything like; tough on Nowell, but he's a great bench option.

On the other bits earlier in the thread....

I sometimes think when people talk about the NH falling short of the wonderful ball handling SH, they actually mean the ABs. Aus blow hot and cold and have been beaten plenty of times by the NH (well Eng anyway.....and if some of those were solely through the forwards, so what? The scoreboard is sole arbiter, there are no marks for artistic impression and Aus have often played the looser game only out of necessity as their pack was cr*p). Ignoring SA's current woes, they've always been forward oriented. So the question isn't how can the NH catch the SH, its how can the NH and the rest of the SH catch the ABs. And as I said on another thread its maximising your strengths, not trying to mimic theirs.

Re bringing players in, it really shouldn't be difficult via the bench these days. 10 mins here, 20 there. The ABs were the model - the 2015 side was uber experienced, yet there were players with 20 or 30 caps or more waiting to take over. You can experiment through the bench, but a starting shirt should only change hands if someone's made a compelling case that they're better. Although you need to avoid teams getting old together, experience and cohesion counts.

Not exactly sure what you're referring to but our basic ball skills on average are well behind those in Australia and New Zealand. Compare an average super rugby game to an average premiership or pro 12 game and it's quite clear. Doesn't mean we're all worse overall. but in some areas, definitely behind.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Happy enough with that Eng side. Very powerful back 5 of the scrum. I'd always find a place for Watson if his form's anything like; tough on Nowell, but he's a great bench option.

Then you bin off Daly, surely?
I'm a big fan of Daly, think he's an incredibly talented rugby player, but I'm yet to be truly impressed by him on the wing, think his positioning leaves a lot of to be desired on attack and defence (which is understandable considering he's only played like 5 games on the wing).
If Nowell and Watson are both fit then daly's on the bench, for me, unless JJ or Brown are out.

 

[big ginger 8]

Hahaha, that Irish team shows why it's such an absolute waste to argue about rumoured teams.

Also can we stop the whole 'he only capped players because others were injured' ****e? So? He still capped them usually with the option of picking someone else. It's not as if it doesn't happen to other teams, he's still capped more than most and you don't usually know for certain what the plan was anyway! Others may also have been capped if people were fit, it's much easier to slot people into a well functioning machine than a spluttering one. Possible debutants also might get injured at the wrong time. There's too many factors for anyone on the outside to really know what's going on, all we know is that players were capped and we shouldn't really be trying to qualify that to suit our agendas one way or the other.

 

[munstermuffin]

Hahaha, that Irish team shows why it's such an absolute waste to argue about rumoured teams.

Also can we stop the whole 'he only capped players because others were injured' ****e? So? He still capped them usually with the option of picking someone else. It's not as if it doesn't happen to other teams, he's still capped more than most and you don't usually know for certain what the plan was anyway! Others may also have been capped if people were fit, it's much easier to slot people into a well functioning machine than a spluttering one. Possible debutants also might get injured at the wrong time. There's too many factors for anyone on the outside to really know what's going on, all we know is that players were capped and we shouldn't really be trying to qualify that to suit our agendas one way or the other.

True on top bit BG8. On capping I more had issue with not trusting bencg. Marmion should've been trusted earlier last week along with Scannell.

But I said we needed injection of hope. And Alpha this is what I meant. Payne at 15 has livened me for sure. I feel for Toner though as he's got the blame for a lineout that isn't all his fault. And we look even more restricted there but I've feeling we are going for running game and I'm buzzing now. Hell I think we can repeat 2007

 

[General Melchett]

Looking forward to seeing Payne back for Ireland. Could be a very late charge for a Lions spot.

Just out of curiosity, how do they determine which nations play each other in the final week? Is it based on the previous year's 6N table standings or maybe the official world rankings? Presumably the organisers want to maximise the chances of a dramatic finish to the competition.

Ireland will have the benefit of knowing exactly what they have to do to keep that 4th place in the world rankings in the event of Wales beating France.

 

[Groundhog]

Ok chuffed the team is announced and I can't dispute the team greatly and found the back and forth on the whole thing on every rugby site very tiring to the extent I didn't want to get involved although it's heaps more civilized here than on other forums *cough*boards*cough*.
Two of the three changes are forced. Glad that Payne is back as he offers so much in every facet of play. He's been a man among boys in his admittedly very limited time back for Ulster Their ability to cut us out wide has been diminished by his return and he will be a big help to Ringrose in the camp and on the field. Marmion for Murray is a shame, but as we're pretty much playing to **** on a third English parade (that's plenty motivation for me, but still) I'm interested to see how he does. It will also force us to change our tact a bit as Marmion's box kicking is weak, meaning that England will not be able to prepare for this game in the way they fully expected (I imagine their back three have been doing a lot of fielding prep this week). His speed to the breakdown and ability to snipe could be an asset. I'm mainly just interested in potential positives here.
Toner being dropped really surprised me because he really didn't do much wrong. He hits a lot of rucks, and his work rate is great, but he can't hit them as hard or fast as Henderson and he's not a carrier. With that said it seems really strange to me that if Toner is out, Heaslip is not also. And that's not a shot at Heaslip, he played fine last week, a few drops aside. But with Toner dropping out, Ryan will be running that line out very light on jumpers. Heaslip, Stander and Hendo can jump, but they're not great at it, and after the way our lineout performed last week, I can't help but feel Best is gonna be rinsed this week with any poor throws. Could have used O'Mahony here, but sure looks.
Big up Andrew Conway getting a reward for an incredible season. Trust him fully to get the job done. McGrath I consider a relatively like for like swap with Marmion, just less experience, a higher ceiling and probably more confidence on his side.
Sean O'Brien needs a big day or he won't have a future with this team.
I think we're going to see a very different Irish side this week tactically speaking.