[2017 Rugby Championship] Round 1: South Africa v Argentina (19/08/2017)

[TRF_heineken]

I'm very interested to see what our team would look like. It will be announced to 2pm today local time.

With Malherbe out, it's a choice between Coenie Oosthuizen, Trevor Nyakane and Ruan Dreyer for tighthead.
With Mohoje released back to the Free State, it seems like our loose forwards will be Jaco Kriel, Siya Kolisi and JL Du Preez or perhaps Uzair Cassiem
Ross Cronje will have to undergo a fitness test, and there are reports that he might not play, which will leave us with Hougaard and Paige as the scrumhalves.
Handre Pollard has been ruled out for this first game, so it's most likely going to be Elton Jantjies to start, with Curwin Bosch on the bench.
The rest of the backline I think will probably stay as it was during the French tests, and there will most likely only be a few changes on the bench with Frans Steyn not in the squad and Dillyn Leyds released back to WP.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

It'll be interesting to see if the team (well, what we all are expecting at least) will be changing throughout the tournament. I think there is a lot of room for change still going forward form and fitness permitting.

As is I think the only guys that are due to feature here that are assured of their spots going forward (fitness permitting) are Marx, Etzebeth, Kolisi, Serfontein and probably Coetzee.

At loose head I just think its time to move past Mtawarira and let Kitshoff and Du Toit take it forward... though Du Toit isn't even in the squad. I don't think Gqobaka will let us down but Du Toit is made for test rugby IMO. Malherbe should be back sooner rather than later. At tight head I am keeping an eye on the WP and Lions game where Wilco Louw and Schalk van Rooyen will be packing down in #3 jersyes. I am more than happy to go with the caps here in the shapes of Malherbe, Oosthuizen and Nyakane.

Partnering Etzebeth we have 3 good options. Very little to split them. I think De Jager is more suited to tighter games though Mostert has been in form in SR while PSdT in my mind still has the higher ceiling but needs to get back to 2014/5 form. If Kolisi can get back in shape 4 years on so can PSdT.

I can't believe Marcel Coetzee will be lost to us up until 2019. Between him, Kriel and maybe even Smith or Cloete we don't loose much. There is also the fact that Toetie loves playing without a fetcher. We saw it at the Stormers and in his early Bok teams. I wouldn't be surprised to see our fetchers drop with Kolisi swapping 7 for 6 and JL du Preez going back from 8 to his prefered 7 when Whiteley or Vermeulen are fit and available again.

The halves... I almost don't want to touch this one. Actually, scratch the "almost". We have been rocked with injuries at 10 and all sorts of availability issues at 9 mind you. The strangest thing is Paige at 21 for the Bokke whereas he rightly can't get a start at the Bulls. That is the awkward position Bok contracts being given to players as window dressing puts you in when the actual starters get injured. If indeed Cronje is unavailable.

In the centers its a question of finding the balance and right partner and position for Serfontein who looks in amazing form for province and country. My personal preference would be 12 RJvR, 13 Serfontein but at the same time I appreciate JvR has been only recently back from injury while it always does seem a tad odd to play your best player out of position.

Back 3 should be 11 Lleyds, 14 Combrinck, 15 Coetzee allowing for a specialist center at 22. Anything else is pure madness.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Combrinck isn't even the top scoring wing at the Lions. He got a few outings in 2016 and didn't make the most of the opportunity.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Combrinck isn't even the top scoring wing at the Lions. He got a few outings in 2016 and didn't make the most of the opportunity.

What's your point? That he was injured?

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Combrinck isn't even the top scoring wing at the Lions. He got a few outings in 2016 and didn't make the most of the opportunity.

I was of the opinion that his debut was one of the very few highlights of 2016. That individual try of his sparking our comeback to bag one of very few victories in 2016. Throughout 2017 he has been injured TBF and compared to his direct opposition for the #14 jersey in Rhule he has 5 tries in 8 games whereas Rhule has 6 tries in 14 games. Combrinck adds a few extras as well while Rhule's claim to fame in 2017 is ending up #1 for missed tackles and he was also the weak link vs France going as far as 0 tackles completed in 5 attempts in game 2. tries scored aren't everything. I wouldn't go as far as calling Combrinck a good defender but he is certaily much better than Rhule in that department on top of having a better scoring rate, a handy boot and looking at his performances in 2016 in a weaker SA side and Rhule's in 2017 he seems more able to inject himself into the game and also to create opportunities for others. He is better than Rhule. It simply cannot be argued otherwise. Not reasonably so.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Bok team announced and added to the OP.

So Cassiem at 8, Coenie at 3 and Cronje passed the fitness test.

Overall not a bad side...

 

[Durbanite]

I like the team, very capable of doing the job on paper. Not so happy with Rhule when there are better options, I feel disheartened whenever he gets bowled over by a bigger opponent and feel he could become a regular target for the hard and fast runners. Happy with DDA on the bench rather than starting, still feel he's nowhere near his 100% best. Beast is a slight disappointment but we know he can pull his weight, it's not the end of the world. Very excited about Curwin being included, could be the start of something really special, just hope he gets a confident start to his bok career and we're not jumping the gun. Would love to see Rohan in a bok jersey though and Combrinck should be on the wing full stop. No Fans Steyn so wondering who'll be taking the long shots, Coetzee? I know Bosch has a monster boot, but I doubt he'll get much game time so soon. I honestly don't think we've gotten over the jitters of last year, so I think this game could swing either way, especially if the Argies put us under some proper pressure and we start to loose our heads. If we stay calm I'd say this team could win comfortably but we have a tendency to allow creeping errors to keep opposition within striking distance of late, even if we're the better bunch. Honestly hoping that the people saying the Pumas won't play like the Jags are correct, we need some good tough opposition to test this team again before NZ win or lose

 

[Sker]

Not a bad team, however I think the Argies stand a very good chance.

We don't have Whiteley's leadership to keep the guys cool and the Argies have this weird way of upsetting our players and getting under our skin, with Etzebeth at the helm..

Hoping him and the team can prove me wrong.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

South Africa

15 Andries Coetzee, 14 Raymond Rhule, 13 Jesse Kriel, 12 Jan Serfontein, 11 Courtnall Skosan, 10 Elton Jantjies, 9 Ross Cronjé, 8 Uzair Cassiem, 7 Jaco Kriel, 6 Siya Kolisi, 5 Franco Mostert, 4 Eben Etzebeth (captain), 3 Coenie Oosthuizen, 2 Malcolm Marx, 1 Beast Mtawarira

Substitutes: 16 Bongi Mbonambi, 17 Steven Kitshoff, 18 Trevor Nyakane, 19 Pieter-Steph Du Toit, 20 Jean-Luc du Preez, 21 Francois Hougaard, 22 Curwin Bosch, 23 Damian de Allende

Overall happy enough with the side. Mostly since we all knew Rhule and Beast were gonna make it. Highlighted guys can feel very lucky. I think PSdT and De Allende should show form in CC first but that might be just me. PSdT second only to Rhule ITO dropping off tackles. I think De Jager can feel hard done by. I can name a whole host of centers that should be in there at 23 ahead of De Allende. Am, RJvR, Vorster, Mapoe and Venter all ahead of him on current form IMO. Cassiem might be a bolter but I am happy for him and hope he takes his chances. JLdP more of an out-and-out blind side. I am also happy to have Kolisi on the blind side. Think the loose forward setup just looks much more balanced even if only on paper for now.

I really hope we take this. Can't say I'm overly confident.

 

[George Ford]

Didn't see Cassiem's inclusion at 8 coming, but happy nonetheless if it preserves the impact of JldP.

Rhule's tatters must be burning up of all the hate (myself included). I've remarked earlier that he is more in the 11 mold (pos he plays for Cheetahs) and not 14, but coaches knows best and we can only hope our fears are not realized on the field and provides costly. The run-on team selected is as expected.

I am still to be convinced of Bosch though, the only thing he has really proven to me is to have that level of maturity perhaps expected beyond his years. Plus the kicking range to boot, but beyond that I don't see anything different other than emulating the likes of a Pat Lambie. Not quite that "special something " that Damian Willemse or Cheslin Kolbe has IMHO, but I do agree this test to be a perfect opportunity to blood him.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

What's your point? That he was injured?

My point is that while I've not seen enough of Rhule to judge him, I don't get the love for Combrinck although he is undoubtedly a handy player. And there is no doubt the two wingers were the least convincing performers in June so they have a point to prove. Despite having a try stolen by a penalty try Skosan was a shadow of the player he is for the Lions.

DDA is the most baffling for me though unless his form has improved since 2016? Picked over RJvR?

I think Bosch is too young but it is the way the game is going and NZ blood youngsters into the national setup quick so I might be outdated in my thinking.

With Cronje selected I'm sticking by my 20 point winning margin prediction. He will be a wee comfort blanket for Jantjies and that means the backs should get some half decent flat ball.

 

[mdaclarke]

Given the squad he picked the only changes I'd make were 1. Kitshoff for Beast, 8, Du Preez for Cassiem 19 De Jager for Du Toit.

If Combrinck had been in the original squad I'd have picked him over Rhule.

 

[Horacito]

Argentina's team was already announced, it's in another thread.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Argentina: 15 Joaquin Tuculet, 14 Ramiro Moyano, 13 Matias Orlando, 12 Jeronimo de la Fuente, 11 Emiliano Boffelli, 10 Nicolas Sanchez, 9 Martin Landajo, 8 Leonardo Senatore, 7 Tomas Lezana, 6 Pablo Matera, 5 Tomas Lavanini, 4 Guido Petti, 3 Enrique Pieretto, 2 Agustin Creevy (c), 1 Nahuel Tetaz Chaparro
Replacements: 16 Julian Montoya, 17 Lucas Noguera, 18 Ramiro Herrera, 19 Marcos Kremer, 20 Javier Ortega Desio, 21 Tomas Cubelli, 22 Juan Martin Hernandez, 23 Matias Moroni


I like all of those backs. If someone would only teach them how to defend. Player for player that is the second best 9-15 in this competition in my opinion. I'm not convinced by Orlando and Bofelli yet though.

 

[SomeOke]

 

[TRF_heineken]

My point is that while I've not seen enough of Rhule to judge him, I don't get the love for Combrinck although he is undoubtedly a handy player. And there is no doubt the two wingers were the least convincing performers in June so they have a point to prove. Despite having a try stolen by a penalty try Skosan was a shadow of the player he is for the Lions.

Combrink is more of a complete package, he can bust tackles, is a good defender, can kick the ball a mile, and can even kick at goal.

Rhule is fast

There is no contest

DDA is the most baffling for me though unless his form has improved since 2016? Picked over RJvR?

Agreed. Maybe AC's Stormers goggles getting the better of him?

But I think AC is keeping RJVR on ice for the AB's...

I think Bosch is too young but it is the way the game is going and NZ blood youngsters into the national setup quick so I might be outdated in my thinking.

No such thing as too young. If you're good enough, you're old enough. Frans Steyn was 20 when he won the World Cup

With Cronje selected I'm sticking by my 20 point winning margin prediction. He will be a wee comfort blanket for Jantjies and that means the backs should get some half decent flat ball.

I just hope his injury ****le isn't going to prevent him from giving 100%. But yeah, I hope he has a blinder.

 

[galumay]

I expect a tough contest, playing away obviously not the Pumas strength but it they can keep the discipline in check they will test the boks IMO.

 

[SomeOke]

Honestly I do think Bosch is getting rushed into the side a bit, not because he's too young but because I don't think he's a complete player. He has a lot of pace and a big boot, but I'm not sure about his decision making, ability to beat players or his defense.
I'd love to be proven wrong here but I think he's a little overrated.

As I said I truly hope I'm wrong.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Honestly I do think Bosch is getting rushed into the side a bit, not because he's too young but because I don't think he's a complete player. He has a lot of pace and a big boot, but I'm not sure about his decision making, ability to beat players or his defense.
I'd love to be proven wrong here but I think he's a little overrated.

As I said I truly hope I'm wrong.

Unpopular opinion but if we are forcing youngsters into it I am kinda leaning towards Willemse > Bosch but that might just be my Stormers bias. In any case, if Lambie and Rob du Preez both were fit would Bosch even be starting for the Sharks and be playing at 10. I think probably not.

But it seems its okay for the Bokke do go a route the unions don't even go IE Paige ahead of Van Zyl for the Bokke but not at the Bulls. I am of the opinion that the Currie Cup game between WP and the Lions have better outside backs between them than the Bokke are fielding vs Argentina since to my mind 11 Lleyds, 14 Combrinck, 15 Marais > 11 Skosan, 14 Rhule, 15 Coetzee as a unit if not player for player where Coetzee probably has the wood on Marais.

 

[FNS]

Ahh Lavanini and Etzebeth will get a yellow both for fighting mark my words xD