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[2017 Rugby Championship] Round 5: South Africa v Australia (30/09/2017)

TRF_heineken

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Venue: Toyota Stadium, Bloemfontein
Time: 17:00 CAT (SA, GMT+2)
Teams

South Africa: 15 Andries Coetzee, 14 Dillyn Leyds, 13 Jesse Kriel, 12 Jan Serfontein, 11 Courtnall Skosan, 10 Elton Jantjies, 9 Ross Cronje, 8 Uzair Cassiem, 7 Siya Kolisi, 6, Francois Louw, 5 Franco Mostert, 4 Eben Etzebeth (captain), 3 Ruan Dreyer, 2 Malcolm Marx, 1 Tendai Mtawarira

Substitutes: 16 Chiliboy Ralepelle, 17 Steven Kitshoff, 18 Trevor Nyakane, 19 Pieter-Steph du Toit, 20 Jean-Luc du Preez, 21 Rudy Paige, 22 Handre Pollard, 23 Damian de Allende



Australia: 15 Israel Folau, 14 Marika Koroibete, 13 Tevita Kuridrani, 12 Kurtley Beale, 11 Reece Hodge, 10 Bernard Foley, 9 Will Genia, 8 Sean McMahon, 7 Michael Hooper (captain), 6 Jack Dempsey, 5 Adam Coleman, 4 Izack Rodda, 3 Sekope Kepu, 2 Tatafu Polota-Nau, 1 Scott Sio

Substitutes: 16 Stephen Moore, 17 Tom Robertson, 18 Allan Alaalatoa, 19 Rob Simmons, 20 Lukhan Tui, 21 Ned Hanigan, 22 Nick Phipps, 23 Samu Kerevi, 24 Henry Speight

 
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So if AC is actually going to pick Rhule in the starting lineup I'm going to Lose my ****. He says he won't drop a guy after one bad performance. (Forgetting that Rhule was not that great in the previous games). But while saying that he will probably be willing to drop a player that did not even have a bad game. Because that's the logic of our coach.
I assume Cassiem will keep his spot and Jean luc du Preez will be dropped for Francois Louw.
This guy just has to be proven again when we get destroyed at home in two weekends time, why he has to drop certain players after that NZ performance.
His explanations to the media never make sense.
 
So if AC is actually going to pick Rhule in the starting lineup I'm going to Lose my ****. He says he won't drop a guy after one bad performance. (Forgetting that Rhule was not that great in the previous games). But while saying that he will probably be willing to drop a player that did not even have a bad game. Because that's the logic of our coach.
I assume Cassiem will keep his spot and Jean luc du Preez will be dropped for Francois Louw.
This guy just has to be proven again when we get destroyed at home in two weekends time, why he has to drop certain players after that NZ performance.
His explanations to the media never make sense.

Well this article won't make your day any better then:
http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/RugbyChampionship/boks-likely-to-keep-faith-in-rhule-20170926

AC is basically inviting the Aussies to pick a big guy to run over Rhule all game long...
 
The Boks dominated the last 10-20 minutes in Australia when they abandoned their badly executed kick orientated gameplan. So I make them favourites here despite the complete bleaching that the ABs handed out (assuming they try to run with the ball).

With the more open play style in modern rugby absolute hammerings are more likely if one side fails to turn up, it's just a case of how you respond to them. Scotland bounced back after a thrashing by England. The Wallabies came out strong in a second half after being humiliated by the ABs. I think the Boks can respond well here.

Wallabies have been fairly consistent in their level this competition so I wouldn't rule them out despite their limitations on the wing and the pack.
 
His explanations to the media never make sense.

I'm so angry. His statements are growing increasingly contradictory and hypocritical.
Its fine for Pollard to miss just short of 2 seasons and still be selected because he was "part of the bok camp over that time" and understands "bok structures" or whatever but Combrinck has had too "little" game time to even be in the camp?

Sbu has had about as much time on the field as Ruan this season?

Hougaard deserves to be dropped due to not doing the basics right and did such a bad job that the coach personally spoke about him not being clinical/technically inclined enough to be our 9 but Rhule has improved enough to disregard his failures to execute the basics? His performance in Albany is perfectly forgivable? AC sure thinks so.

Raymond had a terrible game against NZ and even admitted to AC personally that he botched it, but it's okay because he had an "awesome" game against Aus and AC doesn't want to hurt his feelings "just" because the country wants him dropped.

"The seven Tests Raymond has played, he has gained a lot of experience, so now do I just throw him out and start all over again with a new player?"
Hell yes fool! Rhule wasn't supposed to even be in the squad from the start and has not improved enough to earn a start either! Also, how is it fine for AC to justify dropping Curwin for Handre because he can "take his experienced gained from being a part of the bok setup." and "use it to grow as a player in SR and CC", but Rhule can't do the same with his " a lot" of gained experience?

The only reason that we're at 7 tests now is that AC keeps backing Rhule despite his mistakes, he should've played no further than the Arg tests imo.

Send him back to his franchise and task him with working on his weak areas rather than hurt the boks for one man, then you can justify a selection and claim improvement.

I wish he would stop talking kak and making up nonsensical excuses. His explanations are rubbish and I would've even preferred him saying that he just prefers the players he chose and has his reasons and will back them to get the job done etc, instead of forcing us to bow down to his warped logic.

Our only hope is that
1. AC manages to miracle competency into Rhule's game and this chance will pay off AND carry over to the Newlands fixture.
2. Rhule starts but gets subbed early enough for us to blood a new wing for the NZ test.
3. AC has a change of heart and doesn't start him.

Imo, Its not about experience or continuity, these are thin veils AC has erected to cover his ass and deflect from his shoddy selection from the beginning, he knows that backing Rhule was an error and it's too late to salvage the wing for the RC.

Ranting about obvious personnel issues aside, I think we could edge the Aussies in this one and am still optimistic about our chances. We still have a strong forward pack and a solid bench, I'm sure everyone is interested to see what the backline's response to the NZ test will be, I predict a more refined performance but with the problems we're facing it's a tough ask imo. Hopefully playing in Bloem will be a boon for the boks and will give us the advantage.

We can probably be sure Cheika spent a lot of time meditating on the draw and Albany game and will change up Aus' approach to the boks for this game. I foresee more tactical kicking and a recall to the resolute defence of the last test. Expecting Aus to target the set-piece and can see them hoping to abuse our lineouts like the ABs, hopefully we have put in the practice and don't become deer in the headlights again should we start to flop the throw in or get turned over.

The NZ test pretty much insures this will be a brutal match imo, hopefully we see some intense defense and the forwards making much more inroads then the last test against Aus, with more emphasis on playing around the fringes if the opportunity emerges like last time. We'll battle if the ref doesn't police the scrums correctly as imo Aus have utilised dodgy scrum tactics in the recent past and with Coenie being out we're weaker now. The breakdown will be equally important, glad Flo is in the team now and even if we get Cas at 8 and JL on the bench I'll be happier knowing we have a proper fetcher again. If we can't slow down the game like the NZ test we're going to struggle immensely.

Hoping we're less on our heels and stand-offish in defense, it wasn't the best strategy last time imo and have Aus loads of time to reload, a rush would be good provided we can counter Beale/Folau/Foley if selected. Hopefully Rhule's channel will be well covered if the Aussies decide to start bombarding him, his inside numbers were letting him handle the driftand stood off and it cost us badly against NZ, we can't afford to let the Aussies run at him unchecked.

Still feel we would have won the last Aus test if we played a much more direct ball-in-hand game from the start and I think we are still lacking the pedigree to play pure kicking/tactical rugby so hoping we don't try what we did last time and rather retain ball and build phases at least in the first quarter.
 
Well, the last time Australia and South Africa played against each other on this venue Kurtley Beale kicked a last-minute penalty from the corner on the halfway line to give Aus the win...

So even with our better win% ratio against the Wobblies in SA, this venue has been more kind to Aus than other SA venues...

I will reserve judgement on my prediction until I see both team's lineups...
 
Only way for us is for the players to take it out of AC's hands IMO. AC still has say in who those players are though. I am filled with dread. I expected as much having been a Stormers fan but naively held out hope AC could outdo himself if given the chance. Not sure why I thought that might be the case.
 
I was also willing to give AC the benefit of the doubt but that's long gone.
At best we will be looking at being 3rd or 4th in the World during his tenure. He just had no imagination, willingness to change or even ability to motivate a team.

He has one game plan that he blindly believes is correct, has no balls to make personel changes and to make matters worse is operating under a quota system.
While I do think a more creative coach could have made the system work for him better (bring in Am for J Kriel for instance seems far less severe) he doesn't have the gumption to make changes.

Anyway I do expect we'll win this weekend, but if AC doesn't make any changes other than Hougard out of the 23, I kind of hope we continue to spiral.
 
I was also willing to give AC the benefit of the doubt but that's long gone.
At best we will be looking at being 3rd or 4th in the World during his tenure. He just had no imagination, willingness to change or even ability to motivate a team.

He has one game plan that he blindly believes is correct, has no balls to make personel changes and to make matters worse is operating under a quota system.
While I do think a more creative coach could have made the system work for him better (bring in Am for J Kriel for instance seems far less severe) he doesn't have the gumption to make changes.

Anyway I do expect we'll win this weekend, but if AC doesn't make any changes other than Hougard out of the 23, I kind of hope we continue to spiral.

We could have easily replaced AC with HM in your post, and it would have been nearly 100% accurate while HM was still coach...
 
Wow, by the time AC is done we will have had 12 years of horrible bok coaches.

That's... nice...

Do we get a special jersey for that one?
 
The difference is that Heyneke Meyer actually got the results despite the public campaign against him claiming he used outdated tactics and just wanted to play "stampkar" rugby like many people liked to rant about.

But we played some of our best rugby under him. Closely fought the All Blacks. That one game at Ellis park under HM vs the ABs was rated as one of the best games ever. The ref could not even Keep up with the intensity.

HM despite his faults was a man with a clear ideology of what it takes to win.
Yes he picked players that might have been past their prime but I don't blame him as many coaches worldwide emphasize the importance of experience in the team and if he did not use the vast amount of experience available to him at the time he would have been criticized for throwing away the full potential of our golden generation.
When he was the coach of the Bulls he picked up a team out of the despair that they were in at the time and made them Super rugby winners. Frans ludeke rode the platform of success that was created by HM but that could not last and now without him they are simply where they were before HM came.

AC is much worse than HM.
 
The big difference between AC and HM for me is that HM was at least a motivational guy.
The team has looked mentally fragile with AC at the helm.
 
Woah, Rhule has been dropped.

Haha it's very funny. (Just to be clear, I support this decision) after AC said he won't drop players after one bad performance he then actually drops him. I say SARU or Rassie intervened. Or maybe even Brenden Venter.

What puzzles me is that they then also drop Nkosi a day or two after he was called up . That must be disappointing to him.

We can be pretty sure that leyds will start now.
 
Yeah, seems like it.

AC is such a f***ing chop but I suppose his hand is being forced, so can't put all the blame on him.

Politics. Sigh.
 
I'm so glad that Rhule has been dropped. And I hope Leyds can seize the opportunity.

My guess is that we'll see 3 changes to the starting lineup:
Francois Louw in for JL Du Preez
Ross Cronje in for Francois Hougaard
Dillyn Leyds in for Raymond Rhule.

The rest should be basically the same.

Although I would like PSDT to start alongside Etzebeth
 
Halfway there with Rhule getting the chop. I still say 11 Lleyds, 14 Combrinck is our best setup for our wings.
 
Halfway there with Rhule getting the chop. I still say 11 Lleyds, 14 Combrinck is our best setup for our wings.

Well according to this article, Leyds will definitely start: http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/RugbyChampionship/leyds-to-start-on-the-wing-for-boks-20170927

interestingly enough, Kriel will be back-up for wing. So does this mean that Kriel will move to the bench, to cover wing, fullback and centre? and who will start in his place? De Allende? Pollard?
 

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