• Help Support The Rugby Forum :

[2018 November Tests] England v South Africa (3/10/18)

TRF_heineken

RIP #J9
Staff member
TRF Legend
TRF Supporter
Joined
Apr 9, 2010
Messages
11,670
Reaction score
1,306
Country Flag

South Africa

Club or Nation

South Africa

You cam tell he's hitting above the shoulder, by the way you can see Ester's shoulder (that's the bit in green) above Faz's shoulder (that's the bit in white).

The fact the that bit in green is higher than the bit in white is definitive proof that the bit in white is higher than the bit in green.

IT WAS NOT A HIGH TACKLE.

It was, however, a shoulder charge. I'd have given a penalty, but we've all seen them carded, and we've all seen them allowed to play on.

It's okay guys, don't worry. The precedent has been set. It was a legitimate tackle. We should look forward to the games coming up.




#unjustice4Faz
 

All Black

Bench Player
Joined
Feb 26, 2018
Messages
624
Reaction score
163
Country Flag

New Zealand

Club or Nation

New Zealand

rules were changed in 2016 after the all blacks vs ireland test mate, so are we following them or not? doesnt matter what happens at grassroots rugby, this is test match rugby, the pinnicle of the sport and results matter, this was a match winning/losing moment
Yep and Angus Gardner made the correct call. It wasn't a head high or a shoulder charge.
 

curtbob7

First XV
Joined
Oct 29, 2015
Messages
1,023
Reaction score
170
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

Leicester

New Pub has just opened in Twickenham.

Very difficult to find though mind...

Its called Farrell's Armso_O
 

The Alpha Bro

Fat Boi
TRF Legend
TRF Supporter
Joined
Dec 3, 2010
Messages
13,462
Reaction score
3,806
Country Flag

Ireland

Club or Nation

Leinster

I think it was 50/50 but I think more of it is because any time England are on the better side of a decision, people think it's fine to complain like crazy. Remember when Wales had that try disallowed and WR came out and said it should have been a try because Wales whinged, when has that ever happened before? Tries are disallowed all the time but people don't go running to WR, unless it is England who benefit it seems.

Guarantee if any other team had got away with that, this would be much less of an issue. There seems to be a pretty toxic attitude among some towards England that really shouldn't be in rugby but is ignored (booing the team onto the pitch, trying to make them wait in the cold, not showing the English flag), other teams just aren't subjected to this. Then you have the Loz ban arbitrarily extended so he is kept out of another international...
An English club literally asked for a game to be replayed because it was blown up 20 seconds early last month.

A very controversial decision more or less decided the only interesting game of international rugby over the weekend, of course it'll be discussed. Any anti English sentiment you're interpreting is on you.

Can’t belive people are still going on about the tackle.
The ref on the day said it was fine
Citing commission said it was fine
Anyone who’s played the game at a decent level and actually has a pair says it fine
So you know what people... it’s fine.
That's a fallacy.

think the issue is that those who are questioning it are looking at the “mens rea”. Which does not form part of the decision making process for rugby laws. All that matters is the “actus rea”. Was the player in a position to legally carry out the tackle and did he appear to make an attempt to do so? The answer to both in this case is yes. Christ they both collided so hard they bounced off each other like to rubber balls, there was no chance Faz could have grabbed him.

That's all wrong, rugby has a history of making decisions entirely based on the illegal act, or "mens rea", and has no interest in intention to commit the offense, or "actus rea", until dishing out a punishment. It's pretty much like any criminal justice system in the world.
 

TRF_heineken

RIP #J9
Staff member
TRF Legend
TRF Supporter
Joined
Apr 9, 2010
Messages
11,670
Reaction score
1,306
Country Flag

South Africa

Club or Nation

South Africa

That's all wrong, rugby has a history of making decisions entirely based on the illegal act, or "mens rea", and has no interest in intention to commit the offense, or "actus rea", until dishing out a punishment. It's pretty much like any criminal justice system in the world.

No, no... The grasscutter tackle was always part of IRB laws, ever since it was first written by William Shakespeare...
 

MikeTheNative

First XV
Joined
Jun 7, 2016
Messages
1,192
Reaction score
330
Country Flag

Wales

Club or Nation

Wales

Trying to move on from something other than the tackle. I see that South Africa had zero offloads from the game, I know some teams just like to recycle the ball instead but perhaps that could have been the difference between them finishing off a try instead of just running into England's straight into defence instead. Do England fans think Itoje needs to be dropped? Last few games I've seen him also be a liability with the amount of penalties he gives away.
 

Ddanno

Bench Player
Joined
Mar 27, 2015
Messages
826
Reaction score
164
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

Harlequins

Trying to move on from something other than the tackle. I see that South Africa had zero offloads from the game, I know some teams just like to recycle the ball instead but perhaps that could have been the difference between them finishing off a try instead of just running into England's straight into defence instead. Do England fans think Itoje needs to be dropped? Last few games I've seen him also be a liability with the amount of penalties he gives away.

It's a cunning ruse in cahoots with the All Blacks so's we aren't ready for their offloads on Saturday I tells ya.
 

geostar

Academy Player
Joined
Sep 28, 2008
Messages
408
Reaction score
64
Country Flag

South Africa

Club or Nation

Stormers

Trying to move on from something other than the tackle. I see that South Africa had zero offloads from the game, I know some teams just like to recycle the ball instead but perhaps that could have been the difference between them finishing off a try instead of just running into England's straight into defence instead.
While everyone says de allende had a good game, I dont believe it to be true, if he was a forward I would have agreed. But he just ran straight to opposition, I dont think he had any intention of passing the ball.

We need a 12 that can play quick hands or atleast offload
 

themole25

First XV
TRF Legend
Joined
Dec 17, 2015
Messages
2,652
Reaction score
727
Club or Nation

La Rochelle

While everyone says de allende had a good game, I dont believe it to be true, if he was a forward I would have agreed. But he just ran straight to opposition, I dont think he had any intention of passing the ball.

We need a 12 that can play quick hands or atleast offload
Especially with your wings arguably being your best players. Having a ball stopper at 12 isn’t the best strategy for the boks right now.
 

TRF_Olyy

English Arrogance
Staff member
TRF Legend
TRF Supporter
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
100,002,763
Reaction score
7,357
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

Sale

ncurd

International
TRF Legend
TRF Supporter
Joined
Feb 7, 2015
Messages
9,145
Reaction score
2,510
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

Bath

An English club literally asked for a game to be replayed because it was blown up 20 seconds early last month.

A very controversial decision more or less decided the only interesting game of international rugby over the weekend, of course it'll be discussed. Any anti English sentiment you're interpreting is on you.
We'd also still be discussing it if it was judged the other way around and SA kicked the points. Its would be silly to think otherwise.

Without sounding like I'm blowing my trumpet I do wonder how many other nations fans would be willing to admit the ref might have got it wrong if the call went in their own favor. I'm actually surprised how many Englishmen look at it and think like myself 'we got away with that one'.

BTW the reason why I call it 50/50 is it has divided opinion and not just on typical national lines. That suggests to me even though I think it was a pretty clear cut penalty that maybe I might be wrong (I'm not ;)).
 

ncurd

International
TRF Legend
TRF Supporter
Joined
Feb 7, 2015
Messages
9,145
Reaction score
2,510
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

Bath

It's a cunning ruse in cahoots with the All Blacks so's we aren't ready for their offloads on Saturday I tells ya.
Can we not talk about the ABs game.....it'll make me more miserable.

If its cunning ruse that vastly overestimate our ability ;)
 

ratsapprentice

Hall of Fame
TRF Legend
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Messages
12,106
Reaction score
793
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

England

And this is exactly why I barely watch the sport anymore...

:(
 

Tigs Man

Hall of Fame
TRF Legend
Joined
Dec 13, 2013
Messages
17,754
Reaction score
3,113
Country Flag

Puerto Rico

Club or Nation

Wigan

People in Wigan would give their Chips, pie and Gravy lunch just to be touched by Farrell so SA should consider themselves lucky to get the whole shoulder.
 

MikeTheNative

First XV
Joined
Jun 7, 2016
Messages
1,192
Reaction score
330
Country Flag

Wales

Club or Nation

Wales

Teo stats don't look too good, 4 metres made from 8 carries and 3 missed tackles. Saying that South Africa's centres made two passes between them!
 

ncurd

International
TRF Legend
TRF Supporter
Joined
Feb 7, 2015
Messages
9,145
Reaction score
2,510
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

Bath

Teo stats don't look too good, 4 metres made from 8 carries and 3 missed tackles. Saying that South Africa's centres made two passes between them!
Unfit and not someone I'd start anyway. I'd like to say I was surprised...
 

George Ford

Academy Player
Joined
Jun 21, 2016
Messages
178
Reaction score
16
Country Flag

South Africa

Club or Nation

Stormers

As for the game. I can't believe we lost. Like seriously, we were outclassing the England team in nearly every instance apart from the scorecard. I think our biggest problem was decisionmaking, apart from the handling errors of course. Hey Siya, when you are 8 to 7 in a pack with a very good scrum, why kick for a lineout every time only to overthrow it every time??? Why not scrum them over??? And why keep on going for the lineout, and keep on throwing to the back? Their one jumper is in the bin, THROW TO THE GUY AT THE FU****** FRONT!!!!!

Apart from his decision-making, I thought our captain's general play was way off par compared to his lofty standards he usually performs at. And as a lot of the posters and columns already lamenting the error rate which kept coming to the fore at crucial stages. We need to learn to protect our ball better too, it always felt one ruck away from either a steal or fumble of the ball. We can't be talking about the same issues after every game.
 

Cruz_del_Sur

First XV
TRF Legend
Joined
Sep 12, 2011
Messages
2,866
Reaction score
672
Country Flag

Argentina

Club or Nation

CASI

By the letter of the law it wasn't a penalty....

It does seem like a loophole; it was effectively a shoulder charge, but because he attempted to wrap he's within the law....

 

Primary

The Rugby Forum Assistant
Here are some related products that The Rugby Forum members are talking about. Clicking on a product will take you to The Rugby Forum’s partner, Primary, where you can find links to The Rugby Forum discussions about these products.

 
 
Top