[2018 November Tests] England vs Australia (24/11/18)

[Nudger]

The winning streak happened, but it's so last year. Also, while the results are there in the record books, they mask that some of the performances were less than convincing.

In 2018:

Ford / Faz: Won - ITA, WAL. Lost - SCO, FRA, RSA x 2

Other Combos: Won - RSA x 2, JAP, AUS Lost -, IRE, NZ (just)

While there are a multitude of other factors at play, Ford / Faz isn't now clearly and obviously our best combo.

Maybe put it to the people - what question would we ask? Perhaps a televised debate?

 

[Nudger]

The winning streak happened, but it's so last year. Also, while the results are there in the record books, they mask that some of the performances were less than convincing.

In 2018:

Ford / Faz: Won - ITA, WAL. Lost - SCO, FRA, RSA x 2

Other Combos: Won - RSA x 2, JAP, AUS Lost -, IRE, NZ (just)

While there are a multitude of other factors at play, Ford / Faz isn't now clearly and obviously our best combo.

Maybe put it to the people - what question would we ask? Perhaps a televised debate?

The winning streak happened, but it's so last year. Also, while the results are there in the record books, they mask that some of the performances were less than convincing.

In 2018:

Ford / Faz: Won - ITA, WAL. Lost - SCO, FRA, RSA x 2

Other Combos: Won - RSA x 2, JAP, AUS Lost -, IRE, NZ (just)

While there are a multitude of other factors at play, Ford / Faz isn't now clearly and obviously our best combo.

Maybe put it to the people - what question would we ask? Perhaps a televised debate?

Never ask the people anything

 

[Which Tyler]

The winning streak happened, but it's so last year. Also, while the results are there in the record books, they mask that some of the performances were less than convincing.

In 2018:

Ford / Faz: Won - ITA, WAL. Lost - SCO, FRA, RSA x 2

Other Combos: Won - RSA x 2, JAP, AUS Lost -, IRE, NZ (just)

While there are a multitude of other factors at play, Ford / Faz isn't now clearly and obviously our best combo.

Maybe put it to the people - what question would we ask? Perhaps a televised debate?

We'd need a referendum first to see which network hosts the debate!

 

[ncurd]

Farrell means Farrell!

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I think it does as it shows Jones was bringing people into the squad the fact they didn't make the team just shows in his opion(the one that matters)they weren't good enough

Well even then all 3 did come onto the pitch at 12. Off the top of my head, Daly got a pretty reasonable amount of game time (~25 minutes) vs Ireland in the 2016 6 Nations, Manu got about the same vs France that same 6 Nations and Devoto got about 5 minutes vs Wales in that weird one off game before the Oz tour in 2016, all at IC. If we're talking players that have been brought into squads then the list gets even longer: Sam Hill, Ryan Mills (I think?), Cameron Redpath, Ollie Lawrence...

 

[Nudger]

Well even then all 3 did come onto the pitch at 12. Off the top of my head, Daly got a pretty reasonable amount of game time (~25 minutes) vs Ireland in the 2016 6 Nations, Manu got about the same vs France that same 6 Nations and Devoto got about 5 minutes vs Wales in that weird one off game before the Oz tour in 2016, all at IC. If we're talking players that have been brought into squads then the list gets even longer: Sam Hill, Ryan Mills (I think?), Cameron Redpath, Ollie Lawrence...

Carl Eastman henry trinder?anymore

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Carl Eastman henry trinder?anymore

Do you mean Kyle Eastmond? If so I don't think he's been in a squad has he? And Trinder's a 13.

 

[Which Tyler]

Farrell means Farrell!

Soft Farrell or Hard Farrell?

 

[Nudger]

Do you mean Kyle Eastmond? If so I don't think he's been in a squad has he? And Trinder's a 13.

My bad eastmond was pre jones

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Shame neither Mallinder or Devoto has cracked on as hoped as on paper they are exactly what I want from an IC - big powerful blokes who aren't out and out boshers and have some play making ability. One day....

 

[Nudger]

Shame neither Mallinder or Devoto has cracked on as hoped as on paper they are exactly what I want from an IC - big powerful blokes who aren't out and out boshers and have some play making ability. One day....

Devoto breaks more often than nowel and mallinder doesn't do enough to break but one lives in hope

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

mallinder doesn't do enough to break

Unfortunate choice of phrase given the season ending injury he suffered last month.

 

[Nudger]

Unfortunate choice of phrase given the season ending injury he suffered last month.

I didn't know wouldn't wish it on anybody

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Soft Farrell or Hard Farrell?

What voters think they will get:

What they actually get:

 

[bushytop]

As I've said for years, his best position is one that doesn't exist... it's somewhere between a 10 and 12 (but not a Second-Five).

... 11? He ain't got the pace surely

 

[bushytop]

Soft Farrell or Hard Farrell?

Is this some more of that school girl fan-flic... I mean fic?

 

[Which Tyler]

Is this some more of that school girl fan-flic... I mean fic?

Yes

 

[Reiser99]

The winning streak happened, but it's so last year. Also, while the results are there in the record books, they mask that some of the performances were less than convincing.

In 2018:

Ford / Faz: Won - ITA, WAL. Lost - SCO, FRA, RSA x 2

Other Combos: Won - RSA x 2, JAP, AUS Lost -, IRE, NZ (just)

While there are a multitude of other factors at play, Ford / Faz isn't now clearly and obviously our best combo.

Maybe put it to the people - what question would we ask? Perhaps a televised debate?

Issue with these stats is that it implies the wins and losses were purely down to who played at 10 & 12. I'd have said the back row combinations in the 6N's and S.A series had a far bigger impact than the 10 & 12.

 

[Pom in Exile]

Less than a year out from the world cup. It would be a brave move, but if he's lost the dressing room is there any alternative? Could well be a case of we might lose with White, but we will lose with Cheika.

Rugby Australia is flat broke so financially can't afford to give Chieka the boot...however they'd be better to take their medicine in the short term for the overall health of the game in Oz.

 

[Jimbo]

And that's hyperbole - or do we ignore the historic winning streak? or the fact that Ford/Farrell has been the most successful 10/12 axis for England?
IIRC - Higher win rate than Wilko/Greenwood or Andrews/Carling, for example.

ETA: I have a sudden lack of confidence in my recollection there; I'm sure I read it somewhere from a pro journalist who has easy access to the relevant stat.s - but my 2 minute googling can't find it anywhere.

Not entirely sure where you get hyperbole from It was an impressive streak but less than convincing a lot of the time, at club level Faz has multiple prem and European ***les as well as the achievements Ford has for England, these are just raw facts.