[2018 November Tests] Ireland vs Argentina (10/11/18)

[Leonormous Boozer]

I said I thought the Pumas would be a top 6 side come the RWC and will escape the group of death in the heat of Japan. Nothing I saw tonight changes my mind on that (if they get good coaching for the Jaguares next year if Ledesma doesn't do it). Continued improvement from them and solid performances across the park. Boffelli, Sanchez & Lavanini all looked excellent.

Same old Ireland, struggle a little when behind. Look like world beaters with a lead and suffocate their opponents with game management.



If you were hearing Nugent the Irishman, he is awful. A one man mission to fill silence at every turn. Almost forgot he had a co-commentator for long passages there.

If I could like and dislike a post! Ryle is a legend of the sport!

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Surprised at the POM praise. Cost us points at vital moments and was pretty average for my money. Aki, Leavy and the two McGraths were the difference for me.

 

[munstermuffin]

Surprised at the POM praise. Cost us points at vital moments and was pretty average for my money. Aki, Leavy and the two McGraths were the difference for me.

POM won us alot of turnovers lineout work defensively and was very dogged. I suppose it id how you look. I was very disappointed with Jack McGrath myself. I think he has gone back. He's still 2nd best LHP but theres a dip now from Healy. But also not sire on the POM cost us points. He conceded 1 pen and missed 1 tackle. Aki and Sexton probably to blame for 1st try but wouldn't slate any. No player was terrible with discipline yesterday. Noone conceded 2 pens I notice.

Luke McGrath did well but Marmion was awesome. I think he's really fighting to cement thst sub spot.

Crazy enough looking at stats James Ryan conceded most turnovers in game.

 

[All Black]

Not surprised at the scoreline at all. Argentina playing with us in the RC has improved their game big time. They were never going to beat Ireland, even when the Pumas were leading in that game, I always knew the Irish will claw their way back.

Some nice touches from the Irish and I like their inter passing and all round team work. Should be another good game next week.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

POM won us alot of turnovers lineout work defensively and was very dogged. I suppose it id how you look. I was very disappointed with Jack McGrath myself. I think he has gone back. He's still 2nd best LHP but theres a dip now from Healy. But also not sire on the POM cost us points. He conceded 1 pen and missed 1 tackle. Aki and Sexton probably to blame for 1st try but wouldn't slate any. No player was terrible with discipline yesterday. Noone conceded 2 pens I notice.

Luke McGrath did well but Marmion was awesome. I think he's really fighting to cement thst sub spot.

Crazy enough looking at stats James Ryan conceded most turnovers in game.

I was more referring to POM's stupid penalty to give them their second 3 pointer and him being a part of the disaster at the restarts, I don't think he had a bad game by any means but he definitely wasn't the cream of the crop.

I just completely disagree with the rest, I thought big McGarth was far more assured than Healy, who had some big brain farts to cost us and I think Marmion might have played himself to 4th choice 9, his box kicking was sloppy and his passing and decision making left much to be desired, he left Larmour in a position where he could not not concede a penalty for their first three and there was a few times where Argentina had no one down the blindside and he failed to notice.

I definitely maintain that list of top performers but I don't think anyone was terrible just a lot of players playing very much within themselves or they are just not quite up to the level.

 

[munstermuffin]

I was more referring to POM's stupid penalty to give them their second 3 pointer and him being a part of the disaster at the restarts, I don't think he had a bad game by any means but he definitely wasn't the cream of the crop.

I just completely disagree with the rest, I thought big McGarth was far more assured than Healy, who had some big brain farts to cost us and I think Marmion might have played himself to 4th choice 9, his box kicking was sloppy and his passing and decision making left much to be desired, he left Larmour in a position where he could not not concede a penalty for their first three and there was a few times where Argentina had no one down the blindside and he failed to notice.

I definitely maintain that list of top performers but I don't think anyone was terrible just a lot of players playing very much within themselves or they are just not quite up to the level.

I would definitely disagree on POM as well if you slate him for 1 pen, you would equally slate many others for 1st try.

I'd hugely disagree on Jack McGrath. He has regressed so much since Lions and is still off Healy by a bit. Marmion was name ch3cked as man of the match if he hadn't wwnt off injured. And Schmidt said same.
I think top performers were Ryan, Leavy, POM and Stander in pack. Aki in backs with Marmion.
Lads who struggled for me were Larmour Henderson Best and Addison at times.
Nobody was terrible but next weeks selection will be key. Out of the bench Toner and Leavy were only 2 I think who really made huge claim.

On restarts I don't think anyone can be singled out. That was a team problem

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I would definitely disagree on POM as well if you slate him for 1 pen, you would equally slate many others for 1st try.

I'd hugely disagree on Jack McGrath. He has regressed so much since Lions and is still off Healy by a bit. Marmion was name ch3cked as man of the match if he hadn't wwnt off injured. And Schmidt said same.
I think top performers were Ryan, Leavy, POM and Stander in pack. Aki in backs with Marmion.
Lads who struggled for me were Larmour Henderson Best and Addison at times.
Nobody was terrible but next weeks selection will be key. Out of the bench Toner and Leavy were only 2 I think who really made huge claim.

On restarts I don't think anyone can be singled out. That was a team problem

I just hadn't mentioned the missed tackle. Sexton missed it and cost us a try, he was poor by his standards too.

I think you just have to look at the score to show how much impact the McGraths had it was 15-17 when they came on and we never looked like losing in the final 20, I think they fit the system far better than the two starters and we were under far less pressure, the bench really proved to be a massive factor.

And as for POM I just think there was enough bad in there for him not to be one considered one of the best performers, its not really a hot take considering a few of his contributions.

 

[munstermuffin]

I just hadn't mentioned the missed tackle. Sexton missed it and cost us a try, he was poor by his standards too.

I think you just have to look at the score to show how much impact the McGraths had it was 15-17 when they came on and we never looked like losing in the final 20, I think they fit the system far better than the two starters and we were under far less pressure, the bench really proved to be a massive factor.

And as for POM I just think there was enough bad in there for him not to be one considered one of the best performers, its not really a hot take considering a few of his contributions.

I guess that is opinions like me with McGrath and you with POM. Like I'd still rate Healy far far ahead. And McGrath closer to Kilcoyne behind him than Healy in front.
Like I think it's hard to say the bench per se made huge impact as Argentina tired and well I just didn't see huge impact from 2 McGraths. Not saying they were poor but just not exceptional

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I guess that is opinions like me with McGrath and you with POM. Like I'd still rate Healy far far ahead. And McGrath closer to Kilcoyne behind him than Healy in front.
Like I think it's hard to say the bench per se made huge impact as Argentina tired and well I just didn't see huge impact from 2 McGraths. Not saying they were poor but just not exceptional

We'll have to disagree. It's a pretty privileged position to be in though, beating a tier 1 nation by 11 points, not being all that happy and having selection dilemmas.

 

[munstermuffin]

We'll have to disagree. It's a pretty privileged position to be in though, beating a tier 1 nation by 11 points, not being all that happy and having selection dilemmas.

Exactly. And look nobody will ever fully disagree on forms and selections. Butbwe all know it has to ramp up alot ahead od next weekend.
Sexton I'm not too worried about as he's shite the 1st game of season for Ireland alot of the time and then hets in to rhythm.
My biggest worry is hooker. And I am a fan of Best. But he looked like an old man struggling yesterday. Forget about lineout woes but just in general play.
I know he's had an injury but I think the fact he has said after November he will revise his status shows that he is surely feeling it.
And he is not worth being 16 as Cronin is the best in the World at that role.
He is super for captaincy and calmness. I get all that just worry that time has caught up in such an attritional position

 

[Amiga500]

Marmion was name ch3cked as man of the match if he hadn't wwnt off injured.

Now that is just utter ********. Marmion was competent, nothing more than that.


Maybe you've forgotten what good scrum-half play is seeing as you have to watch Duncan Williams every week these days.

 

[Amiga500]

I was very disappointed with Jack McGrath myself.

And that is ******** too.

If I asked you provide specific instances to justify your disappointment, you'd be struggling from the get-go.

McGrath had a decent game. Maybe didn't put his hand up enough for carrying, but if he's been told to focus on clearing rucks out, then that's exonerates him. Either way, it certainly doesn't move him into the "very disappointing" category.

 

[Amiga500]

Lads who struggled for me were Larmour Henderson Best and Addison at times.

Agree on the first three.



Addison had to become the defensive keystone with about 15 mins warning, practically no preparation and do it all on his first start and only 2nd cap. What do you expect him to do? Recreate BOD's hat-trick in Paris?

I thought he worked well with both wingers and Aki to stifle the threat on the fringes (remember how well we did that in the last world cup?) - and showed a bit of variation in attack, putting a few guys away into big space. He's not Ringrose (few are), but he was solid(ish) on D and made a few chances with the ball.

 

[munstermuffin]

Now that is just utter ********. Marmion was competent, nothing more than that.


Maybe you've forgotten what good scrum-half play is seeing as you have to watch Duncan Williams every week these days.

If you watched Munster you'd notice Dunc hasn't played too much lately

 

[munstermuffin]

And that is ******** too.

If I asked you provide specific instances to justify your disappointment, you'd be struggling from the get-go.

McGrath had a decent game. Maybe didn't put his hand up enough for carrying, but if he's been told to focus on clearing rucks out, then that's exonerates him. Either way, it certainly doesn't move him into the "very disappointing" category.

Inever said Jack McGrath was very disappointing. Again if read correct I said to Alpha I don't think he's up at Healy level and while still 2nd choice not up with Healy at moment.
Now I not sure how Brexit is effecting ye up there but are you not saying same thing?

And if ypu read overall it was I've been disappointed in Jack since Lions and feel he has regressed a bit since. A fair opinion i think

 

[munstermuffin]

Agree on the first three.



Addison had to become the defensive keystone with about 15 mins warning, practically no preparation and do it all on his first start and only 2nd cap. What do you expect him to do? Recreate BOD's hat-trick in Paris?

I thought he worked well with both wingers and Aki to stifle the threat on the fringes (remember how well we did that in the last world cup?) - and showed a bit of variation in attack, putting a few guys away into big space. He's not Ringrose (few are), but he was solid(ish) on D and made a few chances with the ball.

Again selective reading. I noted Addison scenario elsewhere and acknowledged that. Not sure why this upsets you, yes he was on 1st start, 2nd cap, yes he had no notice, yes it was tough.
But also yes he slipped off a few defensive reads, yes he made a few errors. So yes he did struggle at times. And ssid at times as yes he did some good too.
Am I saying forget him? No.

And well I presume by you saying he was "solid(ish)" you're saying similar to me.
A bit confused I am by you

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Inever said Jack McGrath was very disappointing. Again if read correct I said to Alpha I don't think he's up at Healy level and while still 2nd choice not up with Healy at moment.
Now I not sure how Brexit is effecting ye up there but are you not saying same thing?

And if ypu read overall it was I've been disappointed in Jack since Lions and feel he has regressed a bit since. A fair opinion i think

To be fair muff your quote was "I was very disappointed with Jack McGrath myself"!

And if those Brit ******** touch Donegal I'm taking up arms!

 

[munstermuffin]

To be fair muff your quote was "I was very disappointed with Jack McGrath myself"!

And if those Brit ******** touch Donegal I'm taking up arms!

As in yesterday I didn't think he was great. Not awful just nothing amazing. Just an opinion. Some would agree other wouldn't but I dont think theres a dominant view either way

 

[Amiga500]

Inever said Jack McGrath was very disappointing.

Very disappointing = very disappointed in

 

[Amiga500]

If you watched Munster you'd notice Dunc hasn't played too much lately

Aye... he hasn't played much rugby in about the past 10 years.