[2018 Rugby Championship] Round 1: South Africa v Argentina (18/08/2018)

[TRF_heineken]

Venue: Jonsson Kings Park
Time: 17:05 CAT (SA, GMT+2)​

 

[Oliver Madden]

the Argentinians looked hopeless in the June tests I have to say. Meanwhile, I thought the Springboks, particularly in the forwards, looked very strong and back to somewhere like their old selves against England. Can't get away from an easy victory for SA. I reckon 43-18.

 

[bushytop]

Very worried for the Argies with both the saffas and the Ozzie's looking more than decent recently... think that Los Pumas could end up looking a weaker spooner than Italy in the 6N.

 

[SomeOke]

Only thing Argies have going for them is they were very strong in SR, and now have the same coach in Mario Ledesma, meaning if they can bring that form through they should be strong and well organised, that logic has failed in the past though.

Realistically this is a must win for the Bokke, at the very least the Aus and Argentina home games need to be won.

 

[Oliver Madden]

Only thing Argies have going for them is they were very strong in SR, and now have the same coach in Mario Ledesma, meaning if they can bring that form through they should be strong and well organised, that logic has failed in the past though.

Realistically this is a must win for the Bokke, at the very least the Aus and Argentina home games need to be won.

I would say that 3 wins should be a minimum for the Boks this time, they should beat Argentina home and away as well as probably edging out Australia on home territory. as a neutral observer I would class success for the Boks this year as beating both Argentina and Australia home and away and then really pushing the AB's in both of the games.

 

[unrated]

Three wins should be minimum.

What counts in our favour?

• We are experiencing good form after the England series
• there is euphoria in the Springbok camp following the axing of Coetzee
• Coaching setup is better now than it has been for years
• Some big names have come back such as Etzebeth and Francois Louw

What counts against us performing well?

• Folau and his Australian team will be very tough this year, Cheika has always built for the long term and he has been in his job for a while now
• Our best player against England in Vermeulen is playing in Japan
• Ledesma has taken over at the Pumas and this should ensure some more continuity in terms of tactics and player management

Argentina has been beating us for a number of years in Argentina. There is no doubt in my mind that the Argentina that the RC sides will face this year will be the best Arg side since their introduction to the Rugby Championship. With that said i think tactically the Boks are at one of their strongest points in years and even though the pumas will be even better this year than in previous years i think we should be winning Argentina home and away.

The Aussies should at the very least be beaten at home. No draws like last year. I dont think we will beat them away from home.

The All Blacks looks good again following the Crusaders dominance but if we play all our Sharks players against them then we have a realistic chance at beating them at home, and if we win all the home fixtures with maybe a win in ARG then we can win the RC. Thats probably a bit optimistic though so if we can win all the home fixtures then i would consider the RC a success.

 

[Oliver Madden]

if the Boks could

Three wins should be minimum.

What counts in our favour?

• We are experiencing good form after the England series
• there is euphoria in the Springbok camp following the axing of Coetzee
• Coaching setup is better now than it has been for years
• Some big names have come back such as Etzebeth and Francois Louw

What counts against us performing well?

• Folau and his Australian team will be very tough this year, Cheika has always built for the long term and he has been in his job for a while now
• Our best player against England in Vermeulen is playing in Japan
• Ledesma has taken over at the Pumas and this should ensure some more continuity in terms of tactics and player management

Argentina has been beating us for a number of years in Argentina. There is no doubt in my mind that the Argentina that the RC sides will face this year will be the best Arg side since their introduction to the Rugby Championship. With that said i think tactically the Boks are at one of their strongest points in years and even though the pumas will be even better this year than in previous years i think we should be winning Argentina home and away.

The Aussies should at the very least be beaten at home. No draws like last year. I dont think we will beat them away from home.

The All Blacks looks good again following the Crusaders dominance but if we play all our Sharks players against them then we have a realistic chance at beating them at home, and if we win all the home fixtures with maybe a win in ARG then we can win the RC. Thats probably a bit optimistic though so if we can win all the home fixtures then i would consider the RC a success.

don't think beating everybody at home and winning away in Argentina is too optimistic at all. the Springboks are always hard to beat in SA even in the last couple of years they've done relatively well In home test matches. If the Boks play with the intensity and quality they did against England in June then I think they could well win all of their home games this year. even though I expect Argentina to improve from June I would be surprised if South Africa didn't win in Argentina.

 

[SomeOke]

You guys are a lot more confident than I am...
A pass for me would be beating Arg home and away and beating Aus at home (losing the rest), I think we'll have to settle for beating Arg and Aus at home. Beating NZ at all is a pipe dream imo. Hope I'm wrong!

 

[TRF_heineken]

You guys are a lot more confident than I am...
A pass for me would be beating Arg home and away and beating Aus at home (losing the rest), I think we'll have to settle for beating Arg and Aus at home. Beating NZ at all is a pipe dream imo. Hope I'm wrong!

I'm with you on this. And I think it's the more realistic approach.

My hope is that we don't have the same kind of starts we had against England and play catch-up the rest of the game, as it wouldn't be as successful against our fellow SH teams, who love to counter.

I think there is a big underestimation surrounding Australia and Argentina, and I can see them being a lot more competitive. Ledesma as a scrum coach has done wonders with the Jaguares pack, and I know he will bring that to the Pumas too. If we don't get the upper hand up front, we will struggle severely.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

The only thing going for us is that expectations are low.
I know Jaguares = Pumas and Jags did ok, but in the back of our heads the Pumas have lost all games except against Italy, Georgia and Japan.
For me at least, this is about the future, not about the present. I want Ledesma to get a good grip and do whatever he can for a good WC.

I will judge Ledesma on this.
WC QFs: meeting expectations. Further, surpases, doens't make it to the QFs, underdelivers. That simple. I am giving him a full free pass on this and next year's TRC. Not that i'm happy, about it, but i think we should learn from our mistakes and having unrealistic expectations hurt us a lot in super rugby. I am very confident on the pool of talent that we have. Our problems lie elsewhere. We need leadership and direction. I think Ledesma brings that to the table, but we have to understand this takes time and 2 years ain't much of it.

I've pretty much written off every game but i wouldn't be surprised if we upset some folks with a win. Could even be an away one.

 

[Durbanite]

South Africa
15 Willie le Roux
14 Makazole Mapimpi
13 Lukhanyo Am
12 Andre Esterhuizen
11 Aphiwe Dyantyi
10 Handre Pollard
9 Faf de Klerk
8 Warren Whiteley
7 Siya Kolisi (captain)
6 Francois Louw
5 Pieter-Steph du Toit
4 Eben Etzebeth
3 Frans Malherbe
2 Malcolm Marx
1 Tendai Mtawarira

Substitutes
16 Bongi Mbonambi
17 Steven Kitshoff
18 Thomas du Toit
19 Marvin Orie
20 Marco van Staden
21 Embrose Papier
22 Lionel Mapoe
23 Damian Willemse

Argentina
15 Emiliano Boffelli
14 Bautista Delguy
13 Matias Moroni
12 Bautista Ezcurra
11 Ramiro Moyano
10 Nicolas Sanchez
9 Gonzalo Bertranou
8 Javier Ortega Desio
7 Marcos Kremer
6 Pablo Matera
5 Matias Alemanno
4 Guido Petti
3 Juan Figallo
2 Agustin Creevy (captain)
1 Nahuel Tetaz Chaparro

Substitutes
16 Diego Fortuny
17 Santiago Garcia Botta
18 Santiago Medrano
19 Tomas Lavanini
20 Tomas Lezana
21 Martin Landajo
22 Santiago Gonzalez Iglesias
23 Juan Cruz Mallia

 

[SomeOke]

Pretty good team considering injuries and transformation goals. I hope AE impresses.

 

[mdaclarke]

I'd replace Mapoe with Kriel

 

[SomeOke]

I'd replace Mapoe with Kriel

I'd replace Orie with Mostert or RG Snyman as well, but again, transformation goals. All things considered it's a good team.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I'd replace Orie with Mostert or RG Snyman as well, but again, transformation goals. All things considered it's a good team.

That team makes me excited. Really happy that Eskom is on the bench, I'm hoping he gets a proper chance to show what he kan do. Also glad to see Willemse. I think Willemse and Papier could be a really potent combo in the last 15 minutes

 

[mdaclarke]

I'd replace Orie with Mostert or RG Snyman as well, but again, transformation goals. All things considered it's a good team.

I'd forgotten about Snyman, he was immense against England. I'd have him on instead of PSDT/Orie

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

I think you've got better 12/13s (plural). Not sure if they are injured, won't play, cant play or whatever.

About pumas, how weird is this: same team as jags, same coach, different captain. I can find a way to rationalize it, but it's still weird.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I'd forgotten about Snyman, he was immense against England. I'd have him on instead of PSDT/Orie

Yeah I'd have him ahead of Orie too. But I can see the rationale in maybe not playing just now, in Case Etzebeth doesn't last too long coming back from injury. It wouldn't be wise to lose Etzebeth and either/or Snyman/PSDT before we play NZ and will need them for those clashes.

 

[SomeOke]

Talking points for the coming match for me:
- Siya and Whiteley playing together worries me a bit, they both work fairly hard in defense but on attack they both tend to be "link" players who tend to hang out in wide areas of the pitch. This means we don't really have an out an out ball carrying loose forward in the mold of Vermulen, JLDP, Alberts etc. However both our locks ARE known for their ball carrying and our front row can do a job (especially Marx) so maybe they can pick up the slack in this area. I would have been tempted to start Kitsoff, just for the added ball carrying.
- In the centres I think we have the best opportunity for penetration, particularly in the Ezcurra/Sanchez channel, Ezcurra has never impressed me in defense and I'm not even sure his best position is 12 (the Pumas are missing de la Fuente here) Esterhuizen has 15cms and 20kgs on him so this is really his chance to shine.
- Out wide is my biggest concern, Dyantyi can tackle just fine but tends to cut in leaving space out wide, Mampimpi is known for his poor defending, at the same time Delguy (one of the players of the Jaguares season in my view) and Moyano are absolutely electric so any mistakes out wide are going to lead to tries, I would be surprised if both of the Pumas wings score this weekend.
- The return of Figallo will be interesting for the Pumas, I would usually back the Springbok pack to match the Pumas, but his addition has made this a little bit of an unknown quantity, I can't help but feel Beast and Malherbe are not our best tight and loose heads.

All this considered with regards to Pumas form vs South African form, and home venue I do expect the boks to win by 10+ points but if they underestimate the Pumas this could actually get ugly, similarly to how the English scored 3 tries against us in what felt like a couple minutes.

 

[petite]

Talking points for the coming match for me:
- Siya and Whiteley playing together worries me a bit, they both work fairly hard in defense but on attack they both tend to be "link" players who tend to hang out in wide areas of the pitch. This means we don't really have an out an out ball carrying loose forward in the mold of Vermulen, JLDP, Alberts etc. However both our locks ARE known for their ball carrying and our front row can do a job (especially Marx) so maybe they can pick up the slack in this area. I would have been tempted to start Kitsoff, just for the added ball carrying.
- In the centres I think we have the best opportunity for penetration, particularly in the Ezcurra/Sanchez channel, Ezcurra has never impressed me in defense and I'm not even sure his best position is 12 (the Pumas are missing de la Fuente here) Esterhuizen has 15cms and 20kgs on him so this is really his chance to shine.
- Out wide is my biggest concern, Dyantyi can tackle just fine but tends to cut in leaving space out wide, Mampimpi is known for his poor defending, at the same time Delguy (one of the players of the Jaguares season in my view) and Moyano are absolutely electric so any mistakes out wide are going to lead to tries, I would be surprised if both of the Pumas wings score this weekend.
- The return of Figallo will be interesting for the Pumas, I would usually back the Springbok pack to match the Pumas, but his addition has made this a little bit of an unknown quantity, I can't help but feel Beast and Malherbe are not our best tight and loose heads.

All this considered with regards to Pumas form vs South African form, and home venue I do expect the boks to win by 10+ points but if they underestimate the Pumas this could actually get ugly, similarly to how the English scored 3 tries against us in what felt like a couple minutes.

agreed you read my mind.
worried about ezcurra''s defence Sanchez is a good defender but there's too much kg on the bokke centers. haven't seen Figallo play in a while.
just happy that every one thinks we are dead. that's when we do our best.
I would not take what happened in the June tests as an example. not only because ledesma is in but co's hourcade is out. think that there was some kind of involuntary coup . don't think we are going to win in SA but we have a small chance at home