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[2018 Rugby Championship] Round 3: New Zealand v Argentina (08/09/2018)

TRF_heineken

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Venue: Trafalgar Park
Time: 09:35 CAT (SA, GMT+2)
 

Jabby

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biggest Ben Smith fan here, i was saying he should be playing for the AB's years before the rest of you....ALSO, biggest advocate for keeping him at fullback.....BUT!...and i know this wont happen....I'd love to see Mo'unga start and 10 and Beaudie at 15 with Smith at 14.

I'll admit im a member of the barrett is a better fullback than he is a first five (that doesn't been he wasn't awesome the other week) and i'd just love to see how that combo would work
 

Oliver Madden

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I think Argentina may make a game of this for 50-60 minutes but then the AB's will run away with it.
 

Derpus

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ABs by a billion. Moving on.
 

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BB at fullback wont teach us anything, NZ need to play the new guys. If Mo'unga really is the back up starting 10 he needs to play. McKenzie will play the Barrett role ala WC15.
 

The_Blindside

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New Zealand:

Ben Smith, Nehe Milner-Skudder, Jack Goodhue, Ngani Laumape, Waisake Naholo, Richie Mo'unga, TJ Perenara, Kieran Read (c), Ardie Savea, Shannon Frizell, Scott Barrett, Brodie Retallick, Owen Franks, Codie Taylor, Karl Tu'inukuafe.

Reserves: Nathan Harris, Tim Perry, Ofa Tu'ungafasi, Sam Whitelock, Luke Whitelock, Te Toiroa Tahuriorangi, Damian McKenzie, Anton Lienrt-Brown.
 

mania

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thats a good alternate team
 

mania

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biggest Ben Smith fan here, i was saying he should be playing for the AB's years before the rest of you....ALSO, biggest advocate for keeping him at fullback.....BUT!...and i know this wont happen....I'd love to see Mo'unga start and 10 and Beaudie at 15 with Smith at 14.

no way! then you'd have to drop ioane or naholo.
bender is the best fullback in the world at the moment.
beaudy is the best 1st5
why move either?
mounga is young and has time to adjust to test level. there is no rush, he has a long ABs career ahead of him. i am looking forward to him starting tho
 

Jabby

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as i say, #1 Ben Smith fan here, but he's 32 so we do need to start looking at replacements and i thinking Beauden is better than his brother.

and as electric as Beauden is on a flat track with a dominant pack im still not sure ive seen him play a tactical kicking game in the mud getting back foot ball and his distribution feel slower than it should be, feels like he shines when he's making the break but i dont see him putting other people in space that often, have this horrible feeling when a team finally works out how to pressure him we're going to loose

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mania

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as i say, #1 Ben Smith fan here, but he's 32 so we do need to start looking at replacements and i thinking Beauden is better than his brother.

and as electric as Beauden is on a flat track with a dominant pack im still not sure ive seen him play a tactical kicking game in the mud getting back foot ball and his distribution feel slower than it should be, feels like he shines when he's making the break but i dont see him putting other people in space that often, have this horrible feeling when a team finally works out how to pressure him we're going to loose
i dont feel bender is showing his age at all. his loss of speed is easily compensated by his intelligence. imo he is still the best FB in the world. hence why i dont want to move him.
beauden has his shortcomings but these are totally outweighed by his skills and talent. your measuring beauden by the standard complete 1st5, set by , imo, carter. sure beaudy is percieved not to have a passing game or control of the backline etc but gosh you gotta admire what he can do. xfactor in abundance.
you also gotta realise that beauden has awesome damage control. just look at his canes season and you'll see how he fights fires for when the canes are losing.
until a team actually puts him under pressure and shows that theyve finally "worked him out" then i'm just gonna enjoy the show.
until then just enjoy. beauden might not be with the us after the WC. his stock must be worth a couple million a season ... at least
 

Jabby

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i seems to be implying a lot more than im actually saying o_O

agreed Smith is still number 1....but age and retirement is inevitable at some point

agreed Barrett is lethal at what he does well

I'm just curious to see if the 10. Mo'anga 15. Barrett combo could be even more lethal than the 10. Barrett 15.Smith combo and given that as much as we'd like Smith to play for ever, thats not going to happen so lets try it out.
 

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no way! then you'd have to drop ioane or naholo.
bender is the best fullback in the world at the moment.
beaudy is the best 1st5
why move either?
mounga is young and has time to adjust to test level. there is no rush, he has a long ABs career ahead of him. i am looking forward to him starting tho
He's already 24. Not that young really. If a northern club come calling i don't see why he would stay. There is no point in having him on the bench so he's not in your best 23.
 

mania

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He's already 24. Not that young really. If a northern club come calling i don't see why he would stay. There is no point in having him on the bench so he's not in your best 23.
well i imagine barrett would get bought up before mounga does. barrett would be a bigger loss .
 

mania

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i seems to be implying a lot more than im actually saying o_O

agreed Smith is still number 1....but age and retirement is inevitable at some point

agreed Barrett is lethal at what he does well

I'm just curious to see if the 10. Mo'anga 15. Barrett combo could be even more lethal than the 10. Barrett 15.Smith combo and given that as much as we'd like Smith to play for ever, thats not going to happen so lets try it out.
sure bender is still the best and will still be the best in the foreseeable immediate future that has the WC in sight. after that then we can worry about depth.
at this stage we still have havili and dMac as viable FB replacements plus a whole bunch of others that can slot in there without having to move barrett
 

Jabby

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well i imagine barrett would get bought up before mounga does. barrett would be a bigger loss .

i think the point was bench warmers are easier to lure away than starters, if you can get Mo'unga to the point where he's contesting for a start then he's got a reason to stay and fight.

at the moment it kind of appears to me as if there are a couple of positions where no matter how good to play you'll never change the selector minds...so why stay?

my train of thought

we have the best player in the world (barrett)...but he's been outplayed in his position (by Mo'unga in the final - BIG generalisation i admit) and what he does so amazingly ISN'T strictly exclusively a first five skill set and he could do many of the same things from 15....so lets just check it out, Smith has nothing to prove so we don't NEED for him to keep proving it

sure bender is still the best and will still be the best in the foreseeable immediate future that has the WC in sight. after that then we can worry about depth.
at this stage we still have havili and dMac as viable FB replacements plus a whole bunch of others that can slot in there without having to move barrett

not arguing with a single word of that. but nothing you've said is a reason NOT to try it, it cold be amazing
 

mania

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i think the point was bench warmers are easier to lure away than starters, if you can get Mo'unga to the point where he's contesting for a start then he's got a reason to stay and fight.

at the moment it kind of appears to me as if there are a couple of positions where no matter how good to play you'll never change the selector minds...so why stay?

my train of thought

we have the best player in the world (barrett)...but he's been outplayed in his position (by Mo'unga in the final - BIG generalisation i admit) and what he does so amazingly ISN'T strictly exclusively a first five skill set and he could do many of the same things from 15....so lets just check it out, Smith has nothing to prove so we don't NEED for him to keep proving it



not arguing with a single word of that. but nothing you've said is a reason NOT to try it, it cold be amazing
thats a huge generalisation . canes forwards just werent performing and hadnt been since before the june break. mounga had the best forward pack in superRugby.
if mounga wants to go then let him. ABs will survive. they always have and always will . mounga wouldnt be the first to be lured away by big money and he wont be the last.
losing mounga isnt the be all and end all of AB rugby.
barrett is here now , and is the best 1st5 now.
mounga will get his shot. this weekend is it. mounga will be a great player one day, barrett and bender are great AllBlacks now.
 

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well i imagine barrett would get bought up before mounga does. barrett would be a bigger loss .
Nah because he's a starter for the ABs. He will stay. Its the squadies and below that get pinched (Piutau for example).

if mounga wants to go then let him. ABs will survive. they always have and always will . mounga wouldnt be the first to be lured away by big money and he wont be the last.
losing mounga isnt the be all and end all of AB rugby.
Nah losing Mo'unga isnt the be all and end all. But what happens if Barrett tears an ACL and is out for 9 months and suddenly you are staring at a RWC with McKenzie as your starting 10. Great utility player, but doesnt have a shade on Mo'unga at 10. No Sopoaga or Cruden either.

This is the number 1 reason why the Wallabies suck right now. We have 100+ professional rugby players playing in Europe and Japan all of which would dramatically bolster our depth. Taniela Tupou is probably world class but look who we had to sub in when he got injured? Bloody Ainsley who isnt even Super standard and he got completely demolished.

Sure we can call back a few veterans but it only just papers over the cracks. The All Blacks haven't suffered the same attrition as Australia but losing someone like Mo'unga who would be starting 10 for every other country would set a dangerous precedent (if not already set by Piutau).

Hopefully the proposed acquisition of the English premiership by the Formula 1 guys will force the clubs to stop bleeding money and the wages market can relax a little.
 
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