[2018 Rugby Championship] Round 6: South Africa v New Zealand (06/10/2018)

[mania]

I don't like Whitelock.

I used to think that till he became an allBlack. The guys a tackling and ruck warrior. Doesn't have much of a ball carrying game but puts up serious tackle numbers and rarely misses. Also his right work and darkArts has won me over.

Todd's gotta come into the squad either bench or starting.

Prayers with samCane luckily prognosis is positive

 

[Steeler]

any1 else reckon the aus game in Hong Kong is a little bit of a bridge too far? the guys are pretty knackered then we gotta go to Japan, England, Ireland then finish up in Italy. that's a massive tour

at least it gives us a chance to run out heaps of the young fellas and fringe guys and get them some experience in the black jersey aye

Todd is a leader and one of the best opensides in the world. has to be one of the unluckiest players in the world in regards to international duty

 

[smartcooky]

One thing that is bothering me though is Aaron Smith's try and Cheslin Kolbe's try.

It seemed to me that Taylor's pass to Smith went forward, and in Kolbe's instance, I can't see the ball touching the line by any of the replays. But I guess, you could argue that they cancel each other out, even though we all know that its not the case at all..

I'm going to disagree on both of these

1. Yes, the pass from Cody Taylor to Aaron Smith did travel forwards, but as we all know (or should know by now) that doesn't necessarily mean that it was thrown forward. Have a look at how fast Cody Taylor was running - he throws the ball backwards out of his hands, and the ball travelled forward with momentum.

2. Cheslin Kolbe's try was legit. He clearly got touched the line the ball (it doesn't have to be "on" the line or "over" the line, it only has to touch it. There was indeed one view that showed the ball on the line, but I notice that on SA TV, the score is along the bottom of the screen. It was clear on NZ TV because we have the score in the top left corner.

 

[smartcooky]

Interesting point by Mallet about ABs cleaning past the ball in the ruck to create quick ball for those last two tries, as opposed to SA who cleaned over the ball. A similar point made by 'Geech in the past about the ABs at ruck time.

He's wrong. You can clean out past the ball as long as the player you are cleaning is in the breakdown and/or over the ball.

What you can't do is run/walk/drive through or around the tackle and clean out players who are behind the breakdown.

 

[rN_X]

I have to say i never rated Kolisi , but i am eating humble pie now that man is a freaking beast !!

 

[All Black]

I have to say i never rated Kolisi , but i am eating humble pie now that man is a freaking beast !!

Kolisi is colossal. We all saw his power and the guy is starting to come alive along with some other Boks. Probably the best in his position in all of the world right now.

 

[All Black]

I used to think that till he became an allBlack. The guys a tackling and ruck warrior. Doesn't have much of a ball carrying game but puts up serious tackle numbers and rarely misses. Also his right work and darkArts has won me over.

You gotta love and have those guys in your team aye. I didn't notice that about him but thats why he'd be in the team cos it definitely ain't his line breaking ability.

 

[mania]

I have to say i never rated Kolisi , but i am eating humble pie now that man is a freaking beast !!

Same. A few years ago I thought heyywas just all brawn no brains. But yeah I'm chowin down on humble pie too. Real leader and work horse.

 

[mania]

You gotta love and have those guys in your team aye. I didn't notice that about him but thats why he'd be in the team cos it definitely ain't his line breaking ability.

Yup we need dark art specialists as much as we need dynamic ball carriers

 

[TRF_heineken]

I'm going to disagree on both of these

1. Yes, the pass from Cody Taylor to Aaron Smith did travel forwards, but as we all know (or should know by now) that doesn't necessarily mean that it was thrown forward. Have a look at how fast Cody Taylor was running - he throws the ball backwards out of his hands, and the ball travelled forward with momentum.

2. Cheslin Kolbe's try was legit. He clearly got touched the line the ball (it doesn't have to be "on" the line or "over" the line, it only has to touch it. There was indeed one view that showed the ball on the line, but I notice that on SA TV, the score is along the bottom of the screen. It was clear on NZ TV because we have the score in the top left corner.

Thanx Cooky.

I know you're right on both matters, it's just things that caught my eye. Especially the Aaron Smith try, I think there are a lot of those kinds of tries being scored, but it's not very often reviewed.

 

[Jack Reacher]

Yep especially Marx as one poster has mentioned but there must've been a good reason for it. Be interesting to find out why Rassie made those changes

I think because after last year SA were criticised for keeping the starters on too long, including Marx who missed the crucial tackle for McKenzie's match winner due to tiredness

 

[Jack Reacher]

They need to manage themselves and the game a bit better.

NZ have experienced heads in there who know its a long game. You could see they had way more left at the end.

No point in SA running through walls in the first 20 (for little return) if they come to a standstill in the last 10.

It took NZ years to rectify/perfect comebacks or holding on to leads, but somehow it seems to have stuck for 11 years or so - coaching consistency must play a part as its a whole new squad of players doing it

 

[Jack Reacher]

I propose a bet.

I don't think both these teams will make the final.

So, if it does happen, I will donate £10 to a charity of your choice, if it doesn't, then you do otherwise.

Up for it?

I've not scrutinised the table - are they on the same side of the draw again? i.e. impossible for them to both make final.....

 

[TommiG88]

I've not scrutinised the table - are they on the same side of the draw again? i.e. impossible for them to both make final.....

I don't think so.

If you are in the same group, you can't meet each other again until the final.

England SA in 2007, same group and both made the final.

 

[Jack Reacher]

so cool the guys came through, but the worries remain the same for our game and i think this game exposed some of our big problems again, but the win ends up masking it, but hopefully coughed up some solutions too

midfield problem won't go away, can't seem to find a good consistent combo here, it has been chopped and changed every gameweek since Conrad and Ma'a's retirement - gutted Goodhue got a virus before the game aye, wuld've been good to see him this match

Barrett's "tactical" punting - just keep the ball Beaudy, you can't kick it around like Dan, a little better from the tee tonight, but really not up to it when hes under pressure

Richie will emerge as a better option than Barrett for 10 in tighter games where we need more control - there's no way Beaudy can control a tight game, he's a front foot player, we have missed Crudens ability to control a tight game over the last few years and thankfully Richie showed up tonight with the skillset and compsure to be able to handle the heat

we can start with Beaudy at 10 for sure, but then later in the game shift to Richie, it probably leaves no place for McKenzie on the bench, but Shag will have to make tactical calls from games to games, we absolutely need a goal kicker and a natural 10 instead of fullbacks trying to do the job

Good points but how much ball did SA kick away in the first half trying to 'control' the game - it got them nowhere and wasted so much possession! Sky UK for some reason sent a team of commentators to the match (nice jolly) and Stuart Barnes couldn't stop praising Faf and Pollard all first half - in the end it proved the wrong tactics. Teams now need to score 35 plus to beat NZ. Thats the game plan teams need to start with.

 

[Jack Reacher]

I thought Cruden really stepped up and covered for Carter between 2011 RWC and RWC 2015, when Carter was either injured himself or on sabbatical, especially in that unbeaten year in 2013. I think I read a stat that the ABs never lost when he started a game at fly half. He was unlucky to get injured in that RWC final in 2011 and getting injured and not making the 2015 winning squad.

agree - colin slade has TWO winners medals

 

[TRF_heineken]

Good points but how much ball did SA kick away in the first half trying to 'control' the game - it got them nowhere and wasted so much possession! Sky UK for some reason sent a team of commentators to the match (nice jolly) and Stuart Barnes couldn't stop praising Faf and Pollard all first half - in the end it proved the wrong tactics. Teams now need to score 35 plus to beat NZ. Thats the game plan teams need to start with.

Well those tactics also stopped NZ from getting into a scoring position. So while you say it might not have worked, the scoreboard told a different story. There's not many tests where the AB's are tryless for an entire half.

I think the key to beating the AB's is to be as fit, if not fitter than them, and be able to defend for the full 80. the other tactics will work themselves out depending on the personnel you have available.

 

[Larksea]

crazy game, AB's were crap for a long time. Aaron Smith couldn't do anything right for an age. AB's seem to gain composure and eventually wear the boks down. the last couple of tries from drives close to the line you could see the boks were shot, they were flat footed and it was just a matter of patients. Depth on the bench helping again. Kinda strange times, a number of key players missing. Interesting that Ben Smith has been below par after looking pretty hot for a while. He certainly hasn't let the team down but hes been a bit down by his lofty standards as arguably the best all round 15 in the world. The midfield has been a bit unsettled with 4 players sharing game time pretty evenly in different combinations.
I think that would have been a very satisfying game for the AB's win tough in very tough and hostile conditions to square up a loss

 

[Jack Reacher]

any1 else reckon the aus game in Hong Kong is a little bit of a bridge too far? the guys are pretty knackered then we gotta go to Japan, England, Ireland then finish up in Italy. that's a massive tour

at least it gives us a chance to run out heaps of the young fellas and fringe guys and get them some experience in the black jersey aye

Todd is a leader and one of the best opensides in the world. has to be one of the unluckiest players in the world in regards to international duty

100% agree, I literally feel sore for them. Something has got to give. Joe Marlor has spoken out. Rugby needs monitored collision hours like NFL, not just for concussion but for stress injuries like Cane's.

 

[smartcooky]

I don't think so.

If you are in the same group, you can't meet each other again until the final.

England SA in 2007, same group and both made the final.

Yep. Group A and B are on opposite sides of the draw

If all other results go according to form in Group A (Ireland wins, Scotland Runner up) then South Africa or New Zealand play Ireland or Scotland in the QF depending on who wins the group match.

If they both win their QFs, then they will have England, Australia, Argentina, France or Wales from Group C & D in the semis.

Obviously, if they win their semis, the will meet in the final.

There is a good interactive chart here with all the permutations (scroll down near to the bottom)

http://www.lassen.co.nz/pickandgo.php