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BPM

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I can’t say I’ve ever seen Lucock play, but he’s pretty much always voted into the Championship dream team every season. Could be a good, under the radar signing.

Quins have now confirmed Scott Steele.
 

Old Hooker

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Tigers sign
Luke Wallace (Coventry Flanker)
Guy Porter (Brumbies Centre)
Kobus Van Wyk (Hurricanes Wing)
kini Murimurivalu (La Rochelle Full Back)
Matias Moroni (Jagaures Centre/Wing)
Ignore salary cap issues for a moment......

Far and away the 2 best clubs recently have been Sarries and Chiefs. They share a lot of common traits - continuity of leadership off the field, a squad with a strong core of English players, many local, and squads that have developed by evolution with good signings here and there (eg Skelton and White) rather than wholesale change. ie what Tigers used to be.

I think it’s a very long road back to the top for Tigers. And some of the keepers of the flame like Tom Youngs and Cole have best days far behind them.

All the players listed above may be decent in their own right, although in the Underhill / Curry era Wallace doesn’t really get the pulse racing. But gelling them all together is another matter entirely. This could make or break Borthwick’s reputation quite quickly.
 

BPM

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It’s certainly less than ideal, but don’t forget that Borthwick is inheriting a squad and has then had the immediate difficulty of the COVID-19 contractual fallout to deal with.

He obviously couldn’t have planned for that and I doubt they would have signed Moroni and Murimurivalu had Tuilagi and Veainu not left.

I’m also not really sure he can be held personally accountable for Tigers’ recent record of bringing through players from the academy.

Coaching is a results business and unfortunately he’ll be being judged on his success of making the best of a bad situation ... hopefully he gets some time.
 

Tigs Man

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Not really sure why it would make or break his career quite quickly.
I think the trouble is Old Hooker you are comparing Tigers too teams that are successful already.
It's easier to bring in younger players in teams that are doing well on the whole.
Tigers ATM are rock bottom currently.
As said without Covid 2 of those new signings at least wouldn't have changed. outside that the majority of starters who are leaving are Non EQP and not exactly young.

and let's be real Exeter chiefs success has nothing to do with English players despite how nice it might sound, it's down to a gameplan that is performed to perfection which funny enough is a similar game plan to Sarries. Premiership rugby has always tended to be more forward and defence focused yes some teams occasionally break the mould Quins for example did, but the teams that win the final have usually all had big packs. It's also another reason why Exeter have struggled in Europe IMO.

Also nothing gradual about Saracens success, they literally went from 9th in the league to 3rd in the league the next season getting into the final and winning it the season after.


From what I have heard from Tigers, the plan is more a 2/3 year one than a 1 season pray and hope.

(And on Tigers academy we have the most amount of academy players in our squad from the whole league).
When you look at the my 2 XV's it would go.
1. Genge, 2. Youngs, 3. Cole, 4. Lavanini, 5. Wells, 6. Liebenberg, 7. Taufua, 8. Brink, 9. Youngs, 10. Ford, 11. Nadolo, 12. Scott, 13. Moroni, 14. Van Wyk, 15. Murimurivalu
then
1. Leatigaga, 2. Kerr, 3. Heyes, 4. Green, 5. Enever, 6. Lewis, 7. Reffell, 8. Smith, 9. White, 10. Henry, 11. Olowofela, 12. Hardwick, 13. Taute, 14. Potter, 15. Steward
So out of the 30 top players 14 would be from the academy currently.
 

BPM

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14 is a very good effort.

At Quins I reckon only 10/11 of our top 30 are academy graduates and that will drop when Robshaw goes and if Ibitoye leaves too.

Having said that, there are a couple we acquired as relative unknowns like Dombrandt and Elia who we’ve had a hefty hand in developing.
 

Old Hooker

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I’m comparing Tigers to teams who have been able to stay at the top for the past few years displaying precisely the kind of hallmarks that Tigers used to have. Fair points about the styles of play, but you can’t stay at the top without cohesiveness and stability both on and off the pitch. Hard to gain, easy to lose.

Borthwick will be under pressure from the word go (a) Because the only way is up, so rapid improvements will be expected (b) It’s a high profile role at the country’s biggest club (c) The nature of modern sport doesn’t allow the luxury of time. These are compounded by him not having club coaching credentials that he can point to as reassurance if things do get a bit bumpy.

The game’s better with a strong Tigers. If they’re looking beyond quick fixes that makes sense, but you’ve got to have strong leadership to stick to that if results go against.
 

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I can’t say I’ve ever seen Lucock play, but he’s pretty much always voted into the Championship dream team every season. Could be a good, under the radar signing.

Quins have now confirmed Scott Steele.
Yeah Lucock looks a direct physical 12 who runs decents lines. Exactly what we have been missing pretty much since JP Socino left us. i think he could be a shrewd signing..if he links up well with Orlando and young Brett Connon at 10.
 

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I mean Tigers was up for 10 years.
Exeter is what 5 years in.
The biggest challenge is what will Exeter do when the likes of this group start to get towards their 30's so in 3/4 years time, which is still a while away but that's the biggest challenge Baxter will ever face.
Baxter most likely knows this and players like Hinckley and Hodge will help but that core squad he has of 27-29 year olds english players will most likely not be around after the next RWC cycle.

It's what Tigers and Wasps failed at hard and you could argue most likely led to Sarries cheating the cap. Even happens in the Top 14.
Because there will come a point when over 2 years a successful club will have a significant player change, and unless you're a Leinster or NZ club who have far less internal competition for youth it's extremely difficult.
 

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The biggest challenge is what will Exeter do when the likes of this group start to get towards their 30's so in 3/4 years time, which is still a while away but that's the biggest challenge Baxter will ever face.
Baxter most likely knows this and players like Hinckley and Hodge will help but that core squad he has of 27-29 year olds english players will most likely not be around after the next RWC cycle.
Quite. This is where Ferguson was so good at Man U. Even when on top he constantly looked to improve and refresh the team bit by bit and was pretty ruthless along the way. No-one can win all the time, but bar maybe a bit towards the end he never let a team fall off the edge of a cliff.

Reversing fortunes does require patience though. Even Ferguson was almost sacked 3 years in and its taken the outstanding Klopp nearly 5 years to get Liverpool where he wanted them and they were underachieving but not a basket case. Apparently in his selection the owners used a mathematical model developed by a Cambridge physicist.

But I digress.

Tigers will be an interesting watch, as will Sarries when they come back up.
 

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Waldouck announced as Gloucester defence coach,

Bit of an odd one, for me - didn't realise he was defence coach at Newcastle last season as well.
You'd have thought someone as blighted by injury as him wouldn't want anything to do with the contact area!
 

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Tigers sign Cheetahs number 8 Jasper Wiese brother to Sale's new signing Cobus.
Joining the other prem clubs who can play a whole SA back row.
 

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Tigers sign Cheetahs number 8 Jasper Wiese brother to Sale's new signing Cobus.
Joining the other prem clubs who can play a whole SA back row.
Think there were rumors of Connacht signing him a few months back. Big ball carrying unit. He had two bans last year for stupid shoulder to the head cleanouts though.
 

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Waldouck announced as Gloucester defence coach,

Bit of an odd one, for me - didn't realise he was defence coach at Newcastle last season as well.
You'd have thought someone as blighted by injury as him wouldn't want anything to do with the contact area!

Waldouck was apprentice to John Wells last season as defence coach...he wasnt actually the defence coach.
But apparently he is an intelligent coach with good ideas......

We have just anounced Nick Easter as our new defence coach.
 

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Waldouck was apprentice to John Wells last season as defence coach...he wasnt actually the defence coach.
But apparently he is an intelligent coach with good ideas......

We have just anounced Nick Easter as our new defence coach.

IMO a upgrade
 

BPM

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Not sure. As much as I loved Easter as a player, our defence was more than a bit porous when he was defence coach at Quins.
 

Tigs Man

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I just remember the sharks having a pretty impressive defence in 2018.
 

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Well we'll see how it goes. If this new English Championship restructuring comes in...then it looks like Premier League ringfencing will happen this season anyway..so we wont be relegated....
 
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