[2019 Rugby Championship] Round 2: New Zealand vs. South Africa (27/07/2019)

[TRF_heineken]

Now that is a team I can see being very competitive. And we have enough impact and backup to go the full 80.

 

[unrated]

cant win everything. teams usually can only stay fired up for 3 games in a row. its something that grahamHenry identified when he was coaching.
a loss is a good kick in the pants and a reminder that you have to play well to win.
rather the loss now than in the WC.
losing to the boks in wellington isnt the end of the world. its pertty much meaningless in the scheme of things.
mind you losing the opening game in the WC to the boks would definitely make the tournament interesting and would take a lot offf pressure off the ABs

Whoever loses this WC game has more pressure as they would then have a pressure cooker test against Ireland to deal with. That first WC game is essential for an easier path and the easier path offsets whatever value you think might come form a loss.

But its that sneaky French ref that is going to ref this game so any hopes for SA for this game seems very unlikely now.

 

[oscar braindroll]

Is the best springbok team, bar injuries?

Surprised Snyman not starting. Pretty good pack though, kwagga's size won't be an issue with the other big boys in the pack making up for it, but he'll be adding to a kwagga, vermeulen, Marx turnover trio.

The all blacks team not likely to be this strong. Perhaps

Moody
Taylor
Franks
Retallick
Whitelock
Frizell
Todd
Read
Perenara
Mounga
Ione
Williams
Goodhue
Bridge
Smith

Tu'inukuafe
Aumua
Tuungafasi
Hemopo
Papalii
A smith
J Barrett
B ennor

I think Hansen said they would give almost everyone in their 39 man squad game time. The team above means everyone bar josh Ione gets time. Maybe papalii or Todd don't get time, with cane starting. Or maybe aumua doesn't get time, with Coles on the bench.

I think j barret or j Ione will surely get some time at 10?

 

[TRF_heineken]

Is the best springbok team, bar injuries?

Surprised Snyman not starting. Pretty good pack though, kwagga's size won't be an issue with the other big boys in the pack making up for it, but he'll be adding to a kwagga, vermeulen, Marx turnover trio.

The all blacks team not likely to be this strong. Perhaps

Moody
Taylor
Franks
Retallick
Whitelock
Frizell
Todd
Read
Perenara
Mounga
Ione
Williams
Goodhue
Bridge
Smith

Tu'inukuafe
Aumua
Tuungafasi
Hemopo
Papalii
A smith
J Barrett
B ennor

I think Hansen said they would give almost everyone in their 39 man squad game time. The team above means everyone bar josh Ione gets time. Maybe papalii or Todd don't get time, with cane starting. Or maybe aumua doesn't get time, with Coles on the bench.

I think j barret or j Ione will surely get some time at 10?

I'm also surprized that Snyman isn't starting, but we wouldn't have known in what shape Etzebeth would have been prior to last week due to his long injury stint out of action, and he was on point last week, and adds to the experience in the squad. RG on the bench does add a bit of x-factor for the second half though.

Kwagga deserved his chance after a stellar season of Super Rugby. here's hoping he'll be a menace like Brussouw was for the All Blacks.

 

[Larksea]

strong bok team named, will be interesting to see the all black side named tomorrow morning.
Hansen has said the priority is the WC then the bled which could mean this test is seen as another chance to mix things up and give some newer guys a chance to impress before the A side is rolled out against Aussie, at least the time is likely to focus in the guys that stayed home. At the same time they wont just chuck this game away we have to expect some of the front liners will make it back in. may take a chance to play Todd and give Cane and Savea a rest, Savea in particular has had a lot of rugby this year but at the same time he could use more test experience against big teams like SA. Cane was amazing last weekend as well to me he's so critical to the WC this seems like a good chance to rest him. Read will be back, SBW is surely almost certain to start in what has to be a critical game for him maybe paired with Goodhue. I'd like to see Jacobson get a role somewhere he showed some promise in his debut which was mostly confined to tackling and hitting rucks and is worthy of another look for potential in the WC squad. But lets face it selection is a lottery and the only thing that is sure is that the team will be vastly different from last week, hopefully the performance too.

maybe?
moody
taylor
franks
retalick
whitelock
frizell
todd
Read
Perenara
barrett
Ioane
SBW
Goodhue
no idea/Bridge? another run for Sevu?
Ben Smith

karl
angus
coles
patrick
jacobson
smith
richie
ALB

 

[oscar braindroll]

At full strength, Apart from 12, the springboks have a great 23. The best in the world in terms of players I think. No would be next followed by England. Wales and Ireland, at their best, are great teams rather than teams with great players. Some great players, but not right across the park.

 

[oscar braindroll]

strong bok team named, will be interesting to see the all black side named tomorrow morning.
Hansen has said the priority is the WC then the bled which could mean this test is seen as another chance to mix things up and give some newer guys a chance to impress before the A side is rolled out against Aussie, at least the time is likely to focus in the guys that stayed home. At the same time they wont just chuck this game away we have to expect some of the front liners will make it back in. may take a chance to play Todd and give Cane and Savea a rest, Savea in particular has had a lot of rugby this year but at the same time he could use more test experience against big teams like SA. Cane was amazing last weekend as well to me he's so critical to the WC this seems like a good chance to rest him. Read will be back, SBW is surely almost certain to start in what has to be a critical game for him maybe paired with Goodhue. I'd like to see Jacobson get a role somewhere he showed some promise in his debut which was mostly confined to tackling and hitting rucks and is worthy of another look for potential in the WC squad. But lets face it selection is a lottery and the only thing that is sure is that the team will be vastly different from last week, hopefully the performance too.

maybe?
moody
taylor
franks
retalick
whitelock
frizell
todd
Read
Perenara
barrett
Ioane
SBW
Goodhue
no idea/Bridge? another run for Sevu?
Ben Smith

karl
angus
coles
patrick
jacobson
smith
richie
ALB

Surely bridge gets a go? He'd be my first pick right wing to be honest, even though he usually plays left. Good point re Jacobson, and papalii has already been seen last year, Todd obviously they know a lot about, so yeah could see more Jacobson at the expense of one of those guys. Not sure who the backup 7 would be though.

 

[Larksea]

yeah I'd like to see Bridge get a run I think right now he's near top of the list for my picks for that vacant position at 14 he has an element of Ben Smith about him that I like, not massive but ha a broad skillset and a deceptive attacking game. And yeah Papalii is another guy who needs a run he's kinda been under the radar a bit but his stats in super rugby were great, Papalii and jacobson can play 7 in a pinch we dont always need two openisides in the 23 its been pretty common recently having Savea and Cane does often play himself to a standstill in tough physical battles. With such limited time did Fifita play himself out of contention last weekend? I think pretty much not only because of his performance but also his super rugby stats are not sharp, his tackling % is down compared to others and he gives away too many turnovers and penalties. Still likely to get another run at some point though. Also we still dont know if Squire is going to make himself available for the WC squad.
I've liked Jordie for that 14 spot his height is a massive boon but he needs to up his game.

 

[petite]

come on bocks! ill be rooting for you!

 

[BobbyM]

1. Joe Moody (37)
2. Codie Taylor (41)
3. Owen Franks (106)
4. Brodie Retallick (76)
5. Samuel Whitelock (108)
6. Shannon Frizell (4)
7. Matt Todd (17)
8. Kieran Read - captain (118)
9. TJ Perenara (55)
10. Richie Mo'unga (9)
11. Rieko Ioane (24)
12. Sonny Bill Williams (51)
13. Jack Goodhue (7)
14. Ben Smith (77)
15. Beauden Barrett (74)
16. Dane Coles (61)
17. Ofa Tuungafasi (27)
18. Angus Ta'avao (4)
19. Vaea Fifita (10)
20. Dalton Papalii (2)
21. Aaron Smith (83)
22. Anton Lienert-Brown (34)
23. George Bridge (1)

Excited to see how the back 3 selected works. On paper it could be our best back 3 but obv means BB not playing at 10. After an underwhelming performance last week could be close to last chance saloon for Fifita to get into the WC squad. Hopefully Bridge gets a start against the Wallabies to give him a fuller opportunity to stake his claim.

I'm really looking forward to this test, both sides not far off full strength and hope it'll be played with a real intensity.

 

[mania]

except England got 19 consecutive wins as recently as 2017 and we had 18 ending in 2016....¯\_(ツ)_/¯

and thats why streaks are amzing

 

[mania]

1. Joe Moody (37)
2. Codie Taylor (41)
3. Owen Franks (106)
4. Brodie Retallick (76)
5. Samuel Whitelock (108)
6. Shannon Frizell (4)
7. Matt Todd (17)
8. Kieran Read - captain (118)
9. TJ Perenara (55)
10. Richie Mo'unga (9)
11. Rieko Ioane (24)
12. Sonny Bill Williams (51)
13. Jack Goodhue (7)
14. Ben Smith (77)
15. Beauden Barrett (74)
16. Dane Coles (61)
17. Ofa Tuungafasi (27)
18. Angus Ta'avao (4)
19. Vaea Fifita (10)
20. Dalton Papalii (2)
21. Aaron Smith (83)
22. Anton Lienert-Brown (34)
23. George Bridge (1)

hmph. Beauden should be on the wing. i just dont understand why we move our best fullback and 1st5 . mounga is a good player and will be a great one day, but Beaudens a great player now. mounga has all the skills and does the fundamentals really well, but Beaudens magic and needs to get his hands on the ball as often as possible

 

[mania]

Whoever loses this WC game has more pressure as they would then have a pressure cooker test against Ireland to deal with.

thats not such a bad scenario. if u wanna be the best you have to beat the best. u cant have a great game unless youre playing great opposition.

 

[mania]

i cant believe kwagga's getting a run. i honestly thought he would be overlooked for the rest of his career.
one of my favourite players and a pure danger in all aspects of his game. mattTodd is gonna have a massive workload being the counter point to kwagga.
looking forward to this game
love ABs front row and the forward pack with just ardie missing but this is still a good side.

 

[BobbyM]

hmph. Beauden should be on the wing. i just dont understand why we move our best fullback and 1st5 . mounga is a good player and will be a great one day, but Beaudens a great player now. mounga has all the skills and does the fundamentals really well, but Beaudens magic and needs to get his hands on the ball as often as possible

We can agree to disagree but this (with Crotty or laumape over SBW) would be my preferred set of backs for the ABs. I love the benefit of having two proper playmakers in the side in BB and Richie. I suspect we'll see a lot of BB coming into the line and giving us another angle of attack, potentially linking up with TJ.

 

[Larksea]

i think it doesn't matter so much what number they have on their back and more where and how they will play.
smith is at 14 but will obviously spend time at the back and mix things up as first receiver as well.
much like when McKenzie plays 15 barrett will spend a lot of time at first receiver
will be interesting to see where Richie plays on defense, he's no turn-style but he's also nowhere near as good a defender as Barrett either, we could see him defending on the wing at times but I think it will move around depending on the situation. I think the Boks will look to target Richie but it wont be so easy as it's unlikely he will just be sitting in the 10 pocket waiting for them. Plus Todd is arguably the best defender in the world, I really like his selection in this situation.
Richie and Barrett play 10 very differently. Barrett usually dominates the first receiver role and handles the ball much more. For the Crusaders Richie handles less and will often wait for opportunities to inject himself, which is closer to the way Cruden played than Barrett and Carter.
I see the ball carrying of the lose forwards as critical Frizell in particular, i think the AB's will be looking to get lose forwards and SBW in situations they can offload where Richie can then exploit space in behind the front line.
Massive test for SBW, Goodhue outside him. I like goodhue but I think its fair to say he has been pretty quiet lately he didn't make a huge impact for the crusaders in the later part of super rugby. not quite the sort of form we saw last year and he only has 7 tests to his name. Its Crazy ALB now has 34 tests and Laumape is realy putting a lot of pressure on with his form.
it's also interesting that Perenara is starting. It may be a solid indication that he has hopped ahead of Smith in the pecking order. His form warrants it but to back it up at this level he needs to perform to keep that position. I saw a massive increase in clearance speed when Weber took the field last weekend. Smith didn't play badly but when such a massive difference can be see it's a challenge for him to lift his game. Sometimes as a 9 its important to look for opportunities but a lot of the time its just critical to get the ball out as soon as you can while the defense is trying to reset. Often the easiest thing to do in countering a rush defense is just that. have the 9 get stuck in and pass straight off the ground like Weber did and catch the defense flat footed.
I also think its important to target the Bok 9, historically when the bok beat us their 9 plays a critical role. Important for players like Perenara to find some dominance in that area.
Angus Ta'avao selection is interesting as well I recon he has been making huge gains in the selectors eyes, maybe he would have been an outsider to make the WC squad but now I think hes almost odds on to make it. Very experienced smart and articulate guy who's always been great around the field and is now a world class scrummager.
I like this side, very strong bit at the same time there are 7 players who have 10 or less caps. 10 guys with over 50 caps and a bunch of guys still in their early 20's. I think that's the mix we need this year that we didn't quite get right last week.
Still need to somehow pull a great performance from nowhere against a strong Bok team on a role !

 

[mania]

We can agree to disagree but this (with Crotty or laumape over SBW) would be my preferred set of backs for the ABs. I love the benefit of having two proper playmakers in the side in BB and Richie. I suspect we'll see a lot of BB coming into the line and giving us another angle of attack, potentially linking up with TJ.

i agree...to disagree. i prefer laumape and crotty. a play maker and a powerPlayer.
BB cant afford to come into the line too often. he has positional responsibilities first and foremost

 

[Kiwiwomble]

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/the-...why-sonny-bill-williams-is-such-a-broken-man/

did everyone see this? assuming the stats are correct, SBW's only played 37 games of rugby since the 2015 final and in those we've only seen glimpses for magic, its one thing picking someone on experience/reputation...its another picking them on experience from four years ago

given we're not short of midfield options and this close to the RWC i cant help but think fielding him is just taking time of others that could use that time to really lock in partnerships

Nonu was never better than when playing inside C Smith, combinations built over time are important, when we dont have natural combos coming out of super rugby like they were we need to grown them in the AB's...but we're not....we're mixing and matching ever game...its getting annoying

 

[Larksea]

yeah its a low number but he did also lose like a season to play 7's? then he did to a knee which took him out for an age. for sure he's under pressure to perform this match, another injury would almost take him out of the picture.
I hope he comes right, I liked what I saw in his last blues game despite playing fairly conservatively he was a steady influence and constantly created opportunities on attack drawing tons of defenders. I've been watching a load of tests from the last few years recently and he's done a heck of a lot of good stuff at test level. His size, offload and ability on defense will be such a big bonus if he comes right. He's such a polarizing figure people tend to ignore when he does great things and go batshit crazy when he makes a mistake or even just has a quiet game.
our midfield selections have been unsettled this WC cycle mostly because of bad timing of injuries with SBW and Crotty who are likely our #1 combo if it weren't for all the injuries. getting a combo set and injury free has to be a top priority for the selectors. IMO the SBW crotty combo is what can win us the WC if they are fit.

 

[Gena_ZA]

Just my opinion but I see this happening a lot in SA sport, rugby and cricket that in the World Cups people are taken based on past reputation and what they do "off the field" aka great team man, coaches the youngsters etc.
Matfiled cost us that semi final lost last time against the AB's. Way over his prime but how can Bok rugby be without him..
Amla now in the Cricket World cup, same story
NZ is bordering on the same this year, trust me we are actually relieved to face SBW rather than Laumape, Smith rather than Bridge
Dangerous times folks