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[2019 Six Nations] England Squad

ratsapprentice

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Why would it be a worry? He's still a better option than Shields or Hughes.

Haha

I really do not undestand why Shields is in people's blindspot, he's performed well for England - significantly better than Robshaw has in a long time.
 

Reiser99

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Yup.
There's definitely a valid argument to be made for starting the strongest scrimmages, and keeping Mako and Kyle for impact off the bench. Besides, their co parative immobility is not likely to get exposed by the French props!

I prefer the argument that unnecessary changes should be kept to an absolute minimum after a performance like last week - and favour that argument where I would have made different selections decisions anyway. I think we're currently selecting from a position of strength in almost all positions, and the differences are less than the gains to be made with consistency at this point.

After an extra week of training ahead of the Wales match is the time to make any changes for the sake of tinkering, rather than injuries (for the starters at least, bench is always a little more malleable)

I get the idea of keeping the same team, but the subs were used so late and if anything they actually dropped the performance as Ireland got a late try. Ironically it was LCD at fault, who didn't cover the ruck where Cronin went through, who has been retained. I can see a point in keeping the same team that started, but some tinkering with subs potentially. However will Mako and Kyle start or be on the bench? During the autumn it was Kyle and Moon starting, so I can easily see Cole and Moon on the bench.
 

TRF_Olyy

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Haha

I really do not undestand why Shields is in people's blindspot, he's performed well for England - significantly better than Robshaw has in a long time.
He's better than many make out but I can't agree that he's been significantly better than Robshaw.
They've both been very average and do a passable job without really being ahead of many other options.
Neither will lose us a game, neither likely to inspire us to victory either.

Shields has had some clangers since arriving oop north.
 

ratsapprentice

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He's fundamently better suited to international rugby than many of the players England have tried to select in the back-row in recent years.

Along with Underhill, Curry and Wilson - he's been part of the reason for our recent upturn in performances.
 

TRF_Olyy

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...really? How?
I mean we looked significantly better against Ireland than any of the tests he's featured in (which he's lost 3 won 2)

I don't see what he brings to the table that any other blindside that we could pick does other than maybe lineout work?
 

ratsapprentice

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We looked significantly better against Ireland than we have against pretty much anyone I've ever seen.

Who are we comparing him to other than Robshaw - who he's faster, stronger, just as fit as and more skilful than.
 

TRF_Olyy

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I suppose if it's straight up Shields vs Robshaw I guess you'd pick Shields cause youth is on his side, but if you throw in essentially any other option then I'd pick them.
Shields is faster, sure, but I don't think he's stronger - he's just as passive in contact (both defence and attack) as Robshaw is, and he doesn't have half the rugby brain Robshaw does (he's definitely a Wasps backrower in that regard).

I just don't see him being part of our pack upturn - Wilson, Curry and Underhill sure - they have made noticeable improvements to the sides, but Shields is just more of the same. I wouldn't rate him above Lawes at 6.

When Simmonds is back fit Shields would drop out of my EPS entirely.
 

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100% agree. I’m yet to see anything like Robshaw’s level of performance at test level from Hughes. He was absolutely awful against SA, fairly good against NZ and OK against Australia.

Robshaw was exposed playing out of position with a lock at 6 and a work shy 8 in last season’s 6 Nations. He was a mixed bag in SA, but that could be said for the whole squad.
 

curtbob7

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Really strange. I get bringing in Cole, but not dropping Genge. Moon isn’t any better at scrumtime than Genge, both on par for me.

Looks like we’re gonna attack the French scrum, we didn’t once attempt to move forward against Ireland, even with their replacements and Healy on the pitch.
 

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Haha

I really do not undestand why Shields is in people's blindspot, he's performed well for England - significantly better than Robshaw has in a long time.
I respectfully disagree. Shields has been ok, not great, not terrible just ok.
Robshaw has been good for England over a long period of time, although that time maybe coming to an end, I feel his experience and work ethic is still valuable in a squad sense.
 

ragerancher

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I think robshaw had shown himself to be good if it's a slow game, he was good in SA when it rained. Is rate him as more stable than shields too. Shields as tried that miracle offload and at club level had lost his head, costing his team. Robshaw doesn't do that.

Either way neither are our future flankers
 

TRF_Olyy

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Really strange. I get bringing in Cole, but not dropping Genge. Moon isn’t any better at scrumtime than Genge, both on par for me.
I'm a massive Genge fan but Moon is definitely better in the scrum.

It's not like Genge is a liability or anything though, he's better than Mako
 

scotty507

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I'm a massive Genge fan but Moon is definitely better in the scrum.

It's not like Genge is a liability or anything though, he's better than Mako
Moon is a good solid player but i rate genge more and IMO genge needs gametime. Many wanted genge to start last week worrying about the irish scrum. Im confused why we would drop a good scrummager like genge who brings alot more carrying ability and a high ceiling for moon who is a better scrummager but has reached his ceiling i think. Moon isnt a liability at all and im not worried but genge i wanted to start this to see what he is like in all parts of his game against a big french pack, knowing we have moon as solid 3rd choice if needed later in comp
 

TRF_Olyy

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Aye,
If Moon starts this weekend then surely it would've made more sense to straight swap him for Mako - we already know Mako can do 70+ mins at the top level, give Genge the time from the bench rather than Mako


Ah well, in Eddie we trust. He got the Ireland game bang on, after all our moaning.
 

living sacrifice

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Firstly I want Genge to get game time so if Mako is injured we have a like for like style replacement. Moon stays in the squad as well as a more solid player but really Moon and Genge need game time before the World Cup.

As for back row, Robshaw will always let you down in a fast game just because he’s so far behind the pace of the game. I understand Jones looking for more options but we really don’t have many uninjured options.

Simmons and Underhill both injured, I’m not really sure how Clifford has been since coming back from injury.
 

Old Hooker

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I'm a big Underhill fan, but was hugely impressed with Curry last week. With Wilson able to cover across the back row it might have been interesting to have had Ben Curry on the bench for this one as a like for like to keep the tempo high.

Robshaw would be a backward step although possibly worth a seat on the plane to Japan as a squad member. Hughes doesn't punch his weight and Shields isn't bad, but has shown why the ABs didn't pick him.

God knows what we do on the off chance everyone's fit at the same time. Binny's a shoe in, but the flankers? Underhill and Curry perhaps, but dropping Wilson would be harsh. Less obvious than the others, but we just seem to be playing better with him in the side. How long until the Richard Hill / unseen work comparisons start?
 

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I'm a big Underhill fan, but was hugely impressed with Curry last week. With Wilson able to cover across the back row it might have been interesting to have had Ben Curry on the bench for this one as a like for like to keep the tempo high.

Robshaw would be a backward step although possibly worth a seat on the plane to Japan as a squad member. Hughes doesn't punch his weight and Shields isn't bad, but has shown why the ABs didn't pick him.

God knows what we do on the off chance everyone's fit at the same time. Binny's a shoe in, but the flankers? Underhill and Curry perhaps, but dropping Wilson would be harsh. Less obvious than the others, but we just seem to be playing better with him in the side. How long until the Richard Hill / unseen work comparisons start?
Richard Hill, the most constantly talked about “unsung hero” in history!

I actually love our back row options, didn’t think I’d ever say that. My main worry though is I think Eddie is backing some of the wrong ones - especially Hughes, and to some degree Shiekds.
 

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I'm a big Underhill fan, but was hugely impressed with Curry last week. With Wilson able to cover across the back row it might have been interesting to have had Ben Curry on the bench for this one as a like for like to keep the tempo high.

Robshaw would be a backward step although possibly worth a seat on the plane to Japan as a squad member. Hughes doesn't punch his weight and Shields isn't bad, but has shown why the ABs didn't pick him.

God knows what we do on the off chance everyone's fit at the same time. Binny's a shoe in, but the flankers? Underhill and Curry perhaps, but dropping Wilson would be harsh. Less obvious than the others, but we just seem to be playing better with him in the side. How long until the Richard Hill / unseen work comparisons start?
 

TRF_Olyy

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Dropping Wilson would feel harsh, but if Underhill works as a 6 then Wilson is a perfect bench option as he has plenty of experience playing all across the backrow (though you'd have 7 cover from the pitch).

Picking two of Underhill/Wilson/Curry/Simmonds to start on the flanks, one on the bench and one in the EPS is not a bad conundrum to have.
 

noah_jo

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You mean Robshaw/unseen work comparisons ;) I'm not even really joking
 

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