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[2020 Autumn Nations Cup] England vs Georgia (14/11/20)

TRF_Olyy

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Alot of that in particular is that 9 10 and 12, particularly Slade at 12 were poor. His passing today even in the dry was rancid.
I've soured a lot on Slade since his whole "plandemic" attitude on social media.
Think they've been putting anti-freeze in the cider or something cause Nowell and S.Hill were posting similar during first lockdown

A lot of Willis’ excellence is at the breakdown. That kind of relies on the oppo having the ball. He looked perfectly at home, he just didn’t have a major opportunity to shine.
Oh aye, I'm not saying he was bad by a longshot - I'd start him and Curry next game - just saying nothing was learned because this wasn't a step up for him.
 

TBeastT

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I noticed that Slade was spending a lot of time in the forwards’ pods which poses a couple of questions.
1) was this an implementation of EJ’s ‘9 forwards’ idea?
2) if so, why Slade rather than Lawrence?
 

noah_jo

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I've soured a lot on Slade since his whole "plandemic" attitude on social media.
Think they've been putting anti-freeze in the cider or something cause Nowell and S.Hill were posting similar during first lockdown


Oh aye, I'm not saying he was bad by a longshot - I'd start him and Curry next game - just saying nothing was learned because this wasn't a step up for him.
Plandemic?
 

TRF_Olyy

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2) if so, why Slade rather than Lawrence?
Noticed Slade being used on the crash a fair bit vs Italy - another example of EJ having his plan and sticking to it even when the personnel he built the plan around aren't available (atm Manu, in the past Binny)
 

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I think EJ is basically getting England to play percentage low risk/high reward rugby, regardless of who their opponent is. He wants players that can execute this plan well and can cover multiple positions so that it provides the team with more options. It's not pretty, but it is effective. There is an advantage to playing like this when against weaker opposition, which is that the hopefully England should be able to execute one set of tactics to a high level, consistently, rather than changing tactics and executing them well, but not brilliantly. However, it does make it boring when playing teams like Georgia because even if England have the opportunities to be adventurous they aren't taking them. I've said it before, but this is not the heads up rugby EJ was advocating at the start of his tenure. It also means that when the game plan doesn't work (like against S.A) England struggle to find an alternative because they've been coached to stick to this system and have lost an element of independent rugby thinking.

I'm not opposed to his ideas, but it is frustrating to watch England ignore overlaps, so they can kick the ball into the 22 to put pressure on the opponents line out.
 

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I think EJ is basically getting England to play percentage low risk/high reward rugby, regardless of who their opponent is.
The potential in this team is far higher than that if we choose to unlock it.

Getting very frustrated with Farrell. But I’m not sure if I’m annoyed with him or Jones for demanding he sticks to plan A.
 

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Getting very frustrated with Farrell. But I’m not sure if I’m annoyed with him or Jones for demanding he sticks to plan A.
Both, today. I’ll put poor decision making in regards to choosing to kick rather than take advantage of overlaps down to EJ and his game plan. Farrell’s repeated failure to execute a lot of the skills today that were needed to effectively utilise that game plan is on him.
 

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I’m not a fan of Farrell. I respect him as a serial winner and (apparently) an inspiring figure, but as a 10, I’m constantly disappointed by him. I imagine coaches love him because he does as he’s told without fail, but often that can be to the detriment of the team. He is good at executing pre-planned moves but simply can’t play off the cuff.

I’m hoping Ford is back next week.
 

Tallshort

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I’m not a fan of Farrell. I respect him as a serial winner and (apparently) an inspiring figure, but as a 10, I’m constantly disappointed by him. I imagine coaches love him because he does as he’s told without fail, but often that can be to the detriment of the team. He is good at executing pre-planned moves but simply can’t play off the cuff.

I’m hoping Ford is back next week.
Would prefer Cipriani
 

BPM

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Several years late for Cipriani. He was very poor for Gloucester last season.
 

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Yeah, Faz hasn't looked too hot at 10 these last two games. I might be biased, though, as I'm a big fan of Ford. Could also just be a dip in form.

Faz can be hard to judge because he's said to have so many intangible qualities. Things like his galvanising effect on the team, his willingness to give it his all, and so on. I'm always a little uncomfortable with stuff like that; if a player is pulling his weight and adding those characteristics, awesome. But you can end up in a situation where the intangibles are used to justify selection when the tangibles just aren't there... cough AWJ cough.

I don't think that's where we are with Faz, but I'm finding myself watching him a lot more sceptically than I used to.
 

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Went much as expected. Will Stuart impressed me and is a very capable backup to Sinkler. I'd place him above Williams now . Shame he and Genge weren't given more time, same as Willis.
Hopefully withdrawn as nailed on starters against Ireland next week. Robson shone in his little cameo 10 minutes, Malins almost invisible. Shame for JJ, he looked lively. Farrell appears to be making more wrong decisions, kicking with players outside him etc so maybe Ford comes back next Sat? Both Launch and Ewels worked hard.
 

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Went much as expected. Will Stuart impressed me and is a very capable backup to Sinkler. I'd place him above Williams now . Shame he and Genge weren't given more time, same as Willis.
Hopefully withdrawn as nailed on starters against Ireland next week. Robson shone in his little cameo 10 minutes, Malins almost invisible. Shame for JJ, he looked lively. Farrell appears to be making more wrong decisions, kicking with players outside him etc so maybe Ford comes back next Sat? Both Launch and Ewels worked hard.
TBH I'd start Genge and Stuart over Sinckler and Mako based on that. We were pretty dominant in the scrum for the start of the game, but it definitely wasn't as strong after the subs. i know it's only one game, but I'd prefer a solid scrum at the start compared with the end.
 

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^Agreed. Georgia's forwards were blowing before half time. They were getting well beaten in the scrums.
 

TRF_Olyy

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I'd definitely start Genge, and then flip a coin for Stuart vs Sinckler.
Stuart has impressed, but I think Sinck still has enough credit in the bank (and isn't playing poorly by any means) to make it 50/50
 

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I think Stuart did enough to warrant a start against one of the Tier 1 sides.

I’d quite like to see the same front row against Wales given they’ve been struggling a little up front.
 

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I was not a fan of Stuart as I felt he wasn't a particularly smart player and not all that great but I'm changing my mind on him, he does the basics of a tighthead well and whilst he doesn't have as much of a rounded skillset as Sinckler, there is no confusion over what his role is. Sincklers 1st playmaker way of playing rather than threatening to take contact is a nice tool to have but it feels like it's been overused and no longer catching defences off guard.

Farrell, he simply doesn't play heads up rugby. At 12, he doesn't have a running game. He is a robot player and I still can't fathom why he is so rated. I think Ford is better in this regard although his play has become much more conservative under Jones.

I know kicking is a good tool and helps break up the field but damn we are running on autopilot with our kicking and it's so rarely that we are actually gaining anything from it. With Watson in the side we have a decent chance of actually winning the ball back when we kick it. May and A.N.Other have not done well competing in the air at all. We are barely even timing it well enough to tackle the player when they land. All we do is send 3 players up who are usually ineffective at preventing a break or simply a kick back. Regardless of the gameplan, the way Farrell in particular has now repeatedly butchered huge overlaps in favour of kicking is infuriating. Everyone who comes up against us knows we are just going to constantly kick the leather off the ball so as long as they have a strong back 3, they can essentially nullify our entire plan.
 

scotty507

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What do we rate Lawrences performance? He didnt really fire a shot unless i missed something?

I remember faz having Daly on his shoulder and dropping it on the boot rather than popping it to put him through a decent gap.

Willis Stepped up...carried hard, tackled hard and competed at the breakdown very well as expected. Gutted we didnt get willis curry earl back row to finish?

Slade isnt a 12, on paper he should be but he isnt. He is good at 13 because he has more time on the ball.
 

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