[2020 Autumn Nations Cup] Ireland vs Wales (13/11/20)

[Wasps92]

The most interesting of the first round of fixtures. I can see a comfortable Irish win TBH.

 

[Groundhog]

15. Jacob Stockdale
14. Hugo Keenan
13. Chris Farrell
12. Robbie Henshaw
11. James Lowe
10. Johnny Sexton (captain)
9. Jamison Gibson-Park

1. Cian Healy
2. Ronan Kelleher
3. Andrew Porter
4. Iain Henderson
5. James Ryan
6. Peter O'Mahony
7. Josh van der Flier
8. Caelan Doris

Replacements:



16. Dave Heffernan
17. Ed Byrne
18. Finlay Bealham
19. Quinn Roux
20. Will Connors
21. Conor Murray
22. Billy Burns
23. Keith Earls

Referee: Mathieu Raynal [FFR].

Quite a few placeholder players in that squad in my opinion.

• Stockdale is lucky to get another shot from 15, but you can't deny he's a very talented guy who should have all the tools to be successful there. I'm fine with him trying to play his way to form in a nothing competition, but I would have also liked Daly to get some time there too, which doesn't look like happening.
• Centres are.... meh. I like Chris Farrell, but if you're dropping Aki to try and play a less direct game I have bad news for you. I also feel for Aki who has done what was asked of him for Ireland, AKA crash the ball up repeatedly from first receiver.
• Nice to see Lowe in, I think his defence is suspect, but we need a threatening winger. Also like to see Keenan continuing to play.
• JGP is a player I'm not sold on. I don't think he's a long term option for Ireland so why not pick Casey? I can forgive Farrell at a few positions where there's no obvious player putting his hand up for selection, but I think Casey is worth a shot. If I was picking decent players who won't be long term choices for Ireland I would probably have picked Cooney anyway.
• On the pack, delighted to see Kelleher. Hooker is a position we need some consistency at and I hope Kelleher is good enough to make the jersey his. I'm fine with Healy, he needs replacing in this cycle, but there aren't great options there.
• Nice to have Henderson back available for selection. I don't like Beirne being dropped for him but....
• O'Mahony should not start at 6. Let Beirne play 6, he should not drop out of the side. This is my least favorite call in the squad. Either play Beirne or bring in a young player to get their shot.
• That bench will not win you a game you're trailing anyway that's for sure. Nothing against Burns, but just like a guy like Carty he doesn't have the minerals for this level of rugby. Why Earls of all players is parachuted back into the national setup is beyond me.

I know I probably come across as very negative but there are a few positions where Farrell doesn't have a huge amount to work with just yet. I think this will be one of those strange squads with plenty of combinations we won't see again, which will be heavily changed in a couple of years time when players like Casey, H. Byrne and many more have had a bit more development.

 

[big ginger 8]

First time Henshaw and Farrell have played together since u18s level, couple that with a new 9 and it's definitely not an environment you'd want to throw a new 10 into.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

Some more enthusiasm please lads.

this is not the six nations, In some respects it's bigger, it is a unique opportunity to include two up and coming teams, in particular Fiji who beat France very recently in a great upset match and have talent to burn and a top coaching lineup.

this game is massive, a game between two of the top sides of the last 13 years, having won 8 six nations between them during that time, at four a piece. Two teams In a temporary lull looking to build back to the superpowers they have been. Who will strike first in that race? Who will draw first blood?

Ireland will continue to rely on the success of their clubs, while wales will continue to draw from the magic aura of alun Wyn Jones, by rubbing his bare tummy in their pre-match ritual (I imagine).

Leinster hasn't been quite as dominant as in the past, At least in terms of results, but they Weren't too far off and will be bitterly disappointed with their result in the European championship. other Irish clubs also put in good showings this last pro14.

The aura of alun Wyn Jones will never die. It is so strong that there was an article about how blasphemous some podcasters were to suggest he Shouldnt make the lions Because he isn't in the top four locks. His playing ability is irrelevant, highlight reels of this guy are dominated by him singing the national anthem and leading his team out onto the field in slow motion (or maybe he is just slow).

James Lowe will play his first test. My wife asked me one time, must have been around 2015, who my favourite all black was at that moment, and I answered that my two favourite players weren't all blacks, in fact one was rarely in the starting lineup for the chiefs - that one was anton lienert brown, the other one was, you guessed it, James Lowe. This is a man who made a calculated decision to go to Ireland as he expected to have a short playing career since being diagnosed with arthritis as a teenager and being told by doctors not to play contact sports. A constant struggle to recover from games and training compared to other players, this is a guy that oozes share joy, who want to do what is right by his family, who loves the game so much he can overcome his pain, Who loves and plays for his Teammates, who will give it his all in playING for Ireland. This is the most important point, he will be enthusiastic for you, please be enthusiastic for him.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

this is not the six nations, In some respects it's bigger

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Lol, what on earth

Some more enthusiasm please lads.

this is not the six nations, In some respects it's bigger, it is a unique opportunity to include two up and coming teams, in particular Fiji who beat France very recently in a great upset match and have talent to burn and a top coaching lineup.

It's absolutely, 100% not bigger than the 6n. When NZ or SA come in the autumn it's not bigger than the 6n, how is a once off exhibition tournament bigger because we get to play Georgia?

this game is massive, a game between two of the top sides of the last 13 years, having won 8 six nations between them during that time, at four a piece. Two teams In a temporary lull looking to build back to the superpowers they have been. Who will strike first in that race? Who will draw first blood?

Not really, this fixture was played already this year, both sides looked better then than their last outing. The result of this is fairly inconsequential and going by Ireland's selection building for the future doesn't seem to be a priority.

Leinster hasn't been quite as dominant as in the past, At least in terms of results, but they Weren't too far off and will be bitterly disappointed with their result in the European championship. other Irish clubs also put in good showings this last pro14.

Leinster have lost once in 30 games, we're arguably more dominant than 2011-2012 just haven't got over the line in Europe this time round.

James Lowe will play his first test. My wife asked me one time, must have been around 2015, who my favourite all black was at that moment, and I answered that my two favourite players weren't all blacks, in fact one was rarely in the starting lineup for the chiefs - that one was anton lienert brown, the other one was, you guessed it, James Lowe. This is a man who made a calculated decision to go to Ireland as he expected to have a short playing career since being diagnosed with arthritis as a teenager and being told by doctors not to play contact sports. A constant struggle to recover from games and training compared to other players, this is a guy that oozes share joy, who want to do what is right by his family, who loves the game so much he can overcome his pain, Who loves and plays for his Teammates, who will give it his all in playING for Ireland. This is the most important point, he will be enthusiastic for you, please be enthusiastic for him.

I'm excited for Lowe but outside of Leinster I really don't see why anyone else should be other than the class he brings, it's definitely not enough to make up for obvious failings elsewhere.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

This whole comp is a bit meh.

There's no point in the likes of AWJ, Faletau, Sexton, Healy or POM playing. They're all on a downward path and everyone knows what they can do. They'll all need replacing soon and this is the best chance coaches will ever have to experiment. They'd be nuts not to take it.

I know Pivac's under pressure but a win in a game like this is irrelevant. They chose him in the full knowledge that he'd be trying something very different and until they decide it's not working they need to fully back him - and in this comp that means introducing some new blood and looking for the green shoots of cohesion. He's not going to teach old dogs like AWJ, Faletau and North new tricks or learn anything new about them. Changing styles takes time, and while he may have to compromise a bit in the 6N where results matter more, these games are a golden opportunity to look to the future.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

Lol, what on earth

It's absolutely, 100% not bigger than the 6n. When NZ or SA come in the autumn it's not bigger than the 6n, how is a once off exhibition tournament bigger because we get to play Georgia?


Not really, this fixture was played already this year, both sides looked better then than their last outing. The result of this is fairly inconsequential and going by Ireland's selection building for the future doesn't seem to be a priority.

Leinster have lost once in 30 games, we're arguably more dominant than 2011-2012 just haven't got over the line in Europe this time round.

I'm excited for Lowe but outside of Leinster I really don't see why anyone else should be other than the class he brings, it's definitely not enough to make up for obvious failings elsewhere.

Hahaha. Haaaa face palm. Hit and miss I guess. I thought it would be clear by the end of the post that I had been exaggerating the importance of this game, playing it up, Making up pretty random narratives, in order to say that this test which is James Lowe's first is an important one, because I'm a fan of James Lowe and I Therefore want his first test To be seen as important.

also would be good more generally if you'd all be just a little less down on the game, it's a test match after all.

Just remember, Ireland, James Lowe smiles for you!

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Hahaha. Haaaa face palm. Hit and miss I guess. I thought it would be clear by the end of the post that I had been exaggerating the importance of this game, playing it up, Making up pretty random narratives, in order to say that this test which is James Lowe's first is an important one, because I'm a fan of James Lowe and I Therefore want his first test To be seen as important.

Just remember, Ireland, James Lowe smiles for you!

It was too convincing haha! Probably unfortunate that the digs at AWJ were on the mild side for this forum.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Good to see Sheedy. No LRZ on the bench seems silly but I'm assuming it's cause North can cover centre (if poorly)

 

[BPM]

Has Neil been forgotten after an indifferent game against France? He was getting rave reviews 6mths ago.

Pleased to see Sheedy. Given an opportunity, I think he has a real chance of becoming Wales' starting 10 for 2023.

 

[munstermuffin]

This is like watching an old game already. Nothing new from either side and effectively like just fulfilling a fixture.

 

[Leinster Fan]

Leavy's obviously at a very early stage in his comeback, but he could be a good option at 6. Beirne is the obvious option at this stage.

It's a shame Baird is injured because I think he and Ryan have the potential to be a great combination.

Stockdale has been in poor form for quite a while now, but I can see why Farrell wants to persist. He has the talent and the physical attributes to be a good fullback and with Larmour injured, I'd argue that there's possibly more to be gained by persevering than switching to Keenan or Conway.

Agreed on Leavy. Obviously not an option for this block of games but depending on how his return to play goes 6 is definitely something to be looked at (already something Leinster tried back before the injury). There's a chance that it'll work better for him than 7 post-injury as well, but obviously that's all speculation at this stage. Still only ready for 15 minute appearances in the Pro14 it seems right now.

I have some sympathy for Farrell on the young players thing because Baird is someone who obviously would be involved if he's fit. Anyone know when he's due back actually? Thought there was a chance he'd be back in time for some of these. Baloucoune is another who has the talent but is out for a while. Back 3 despite the fullback problem is shaping up really well, potentially a lot of talented players there soon, between Larmour, Stockdale, Lowe, Keenan, Daly, Baloucoune there's a lot of genuine talent there. Makes you wonder why Earls is on the bench though. As for fullbacks, I'd really like to see Keenan get a go, he looked good there for Leinster and assuming they both stay first choice at Leinster I think it's more likely we see him at 15 and Larmour on the wing. Shane Daly was the guy I was hoping we'd see start there against Italy but based on the selection so far we won't see him until the Georgia game. Stockdale has potential at fullback but there are plenty of others who've looked good or better there at club level and we're seriously risking destroying the confidence of our best winger.

 

[BPM]

Yes. That's more or less my thinking on Leavy. He's big enough to be a 6 and if he's lost any pace etc. it might suit him a bit better post injury.

Agreed on Baloucoune too. He has the size and athleticism to be a good test winger IMO. I think he ripped his hamstring fully off the bone though so who knows how that will mend ...

A bit of a random one but I've been really impressed by John Andrew in the last few weeks to the point that Ulster aren't really missing Herring. It could just be an isolated run of good form, but his basics are very good, he carries well and I wonder whether he's a late bloomer?

 

[Blindside]

Rumors of unhappiness in the camp, Pivac in a weak position, because he doesn't, have the wins behind him, he's stuck to his selected side against Scotland, its a huge game for him so you can understand he's gone for what he feels is his best side, but if it goes ***s up he's dug an even bigger hole with not experimenting. In poker terms, he's gone all-in with a pair 5s with a raise on the board.

Can't see where this side gets its bite from, except for 11 and 14. I feel sorry for Pivac because I don't think there's is a side he can pick to win this game out of the players available. The only people who believe there is depth in Welsh rugby are those that only really watch Welsh rugby, its Goldfish bowl syndrome. This has been coming and because Wales kept winning and the gravy train was picking up and dropping off the freeloaders, they neglected the quality of their structures.

 

[Oliver Madden]

I just can't get up for this game at all really. I usually like Ireland v Wales games but there's just something about this particular fixture that doesn't excite me. Doesn't help that these two teams seemed to have played each other so often in recent years. For what it's worth I think Ireland will win something like 24-15.

 

[Mikey12]

I think Wales need to accept we don't have sufficient strength in depth and allow more Welsh players playing in England into the setup, when are they going to consider Thomas Young as good enough? We are seriously short of Jackals and need some invention behind. We have put too much emphasis on the choke tackle in the last two games and not enough on fronting up in the rucks and tackling behind the gain line.

Experimenting is what we do when we go oversees touring America and the Southern Islands it's seems we dare not do it in the stadium. Let's be honest our regional teams rarely beat Irish regions these days maybe now is the time for new blood. Pivac managed this in Scarlets I wonder if he has as much rope in the Welsh job, you will lose when you change a system so why not bring in new blood that didn't know the old one.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

This better be worth missing most of Tiger's second round and I just don't think it will.

Ireland by the length of POM's willy in cm... 5-6

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Stockdale and Henderson out, Roux and Conway in. Keenan 15