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2024 Guinness Six Nations
[2020 Six Nations] England Squad
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<blockquote data-quote="BPM" data-source="post: 985154" data-attributes="member: 59968"><p>Which has probably seen this before, but here's what I posted a week or so re. Number 8s on another forum:</p><p></p><p>"With Billy out and no specialist Number 8 named in the 6 Nations squad, I think it is worth talking about Number 8s in more detail.</p><p></p><p>My impression is that the role of the 8 is evolving away from bigger bulkier players and is becoming slightly less specialised.</p><p></p><p>Looking at Ben Earl and the 8s we're likely to face in the 6 Nations we have:</p><p></p><p>England: Ben Earl - 1.86m / 110kg</p><p></p><p>France: Gregory Aldritt - 1.91m / 115kg</p><p></p><p>Ireland: Jack Conan - 1.93m / 110kg</p><p></p><p>Italy: Braam Steyn - 1.94m / 110kg</p><p></p><p>Scotland: Magnus Bradbury - 1.93m / 115kg</p><p></p><p>Wales: Taulupe Faletau - 1.87m / 110kg</p><p></p><p>We can take all of those heights and weights with a bit of a pinch of salt, but they're all pretty similar. I've also gone for the biggest player those countries can field when the first choice is not clear cut.</p><p></p><p>Yes, Earl is marginally the shortest and among the lightest, but not by much and Billy would have been an obvious outlier at 125/130kg. Earl is closer to the norm of the 3rd flanker most other countries are fielding - Faletau and Conan are specialist 8s, but Steyn, Bradbury and Aldritt are not drastically different to Earl. Likewise Moriarty when Faletau wasn't fit.</p><p></p><p>Having Billy in the side dictates the way we play at least to some extent and I'd argue that playing with a lighter 8/3rd flanker as we did with Wilson in the 2018 AIs wasn't as significant a drop off as expected.</p><p></p><p>Prior to the RWC semi final, we thought the lack of a third taller jumper would be a hindrance, but it didn't work out that way and Earl is definitely a better lineout forward than Billy.</p><p></p><p>From a longer term POV, we should also recognise that the 8s we have and those coming through typically aren't bulldozers. Dombrandt is big enough for that, but it's not playing to his strengths which are picking good lines to hit space and making offloads. Likewise, Mercer is more of a rangy, Read style 8 and Simmonds is similar to Earl. Tom Willis is another who's big but not massive. Rus Tuima is the only other big brute but IMO, we'd be far better at developing a more subtle, more modern style that takes us away from the Billy or bust model.</p><p></p><p>At his best, Billy is a huge (literal and metaphorical) asset, but he's been a way off his best for a little while now, so I'd say we should focus on the opportunity to develop a credible alternative style rather than lament what we don't have."</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="BPM, post: 985154, member: 59968"] Which has probably seen this before, but here’s what I posted a week or so re. Number 8s on another forum: “With Billy out and no specialist Number 8 named in the 6 Nations squad, I think it is worth talking about Number 8s in more detail. My impression is that the role of the 8 is evolving away from bigger bulkier players and is becoming slightly less specialised. Looking at Ben Earl and the 8s we’re likely to face in the 6 Nations we have: England: Ben Earl - 1.86m / 110kg France: Gregory Aldritt - 1.91m / 115kg Ireland: Jack Conan - 1.93m / 110kg Italy: Braam Steyn - 1.94m / 110kg Scotland: Magnus Bradbury - 1.93m / 115kg Wales: Taulupe Faletau - 1.87m / 110kg We can take all of those heights and weights with a bit of a pinch of salt, but they’re all pretty similar. I’ve also gone for the biggest player those countries can field when the first choice is not clear cut. Yes, Earl is marginally the shortest and among the lightest, but not by much and Billy would have been an obvious outlier at 125/130kg. Earl is closer to the norm of the 3rd flanker most other countries are fielding - Faletau and Conan are specialist 8s, but Steyn, Bradbury and Aldritt are not drastically different to Earl. Likewise Moriarty when Faletau wasn’t fit. Having Billy in the side dictates the way we play at least to some extent and I’d argue that playing with a lighter 8/3rd flanker as we did with Wilson in the 2018 AIs wasn’t as significant a drop off as expected. Prior to the RWC semi final, we thought the lack of a third taller jumper would be a hindrance, but it didn’t work out that way and Earl is definitely a better lineout forward than Billy. From a longer term POV, we should also recognise that the 8s we have and those coming through typically aren’t bulldozers. Dombrandt is big enough for that, but it’s not playing to his strengths which are picking good lines to hit space and making offloads. Likewise, Mercer is more of a rangy, Read style 8 and Simmonds is similar to Earl. Tom Willis is another who’s big but not massive. Rus Tuima is the only other big brute but IMO, we’d be far better at developing a more subtle, more modern style that takes us away from the Billy or bust model. At his best, Billy is a huge (literal and metaphorical) asset, but he’s been a way off his best for a little while now, so I’d say we should focus on the opportunity to develop a credible alternative style rather than lament what we don’t have.” [/QUOTE]
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