[2020 Six Nations] France vs England (02/02/20)

[Vieux Talonneur]

That's two awful performances in a row. It's not that we've lost, but how truly bad we've been in both.

The Scots will be fancying their chances.

 

[die_mole]

Mental.
It seems to affect all RWC runners-up, Saracens' issues would have dou led down on that, along with having too many players who's heads drop when the pressure comes on.

3 backrowers would help - even if none of them are a "natural" #8 (though I'd rather one who's accustomed to it)
Ditch Young's. Yes, he can win matches in his own, but he looses 2 for every one of those performances.
Find a captain with on-field leadership and a naturally calm temperament, ideally in the pack.

Get a sport psychologist working hard with the whole squad (and ideally, start that 3 months ago)

Ewels > Kruis did not lose us that match
Curry at 8 did not losenus that match
Furbank at FB did not lose us that match

The England team is super emotional and I think Eddie likes it that way. When they lined up against the All Blacks, I felt that no team in the history of rugby could have beaten them. Then in the final Sinkler goes off two minutes in and it was if someone died.

They need to find a way to keep the energy or find a way to win on days that the energy isn't there. I think part of that is having a scrum half who is willing to push players around. I don't think Ford or Faz will listen to Young or really have that much respect for him. There will be times when the Ford/Faz magic isn't there and someone else will need to control the game.

 

[Scotty]

I want to see ludlam at No.8 if we end up with curry underhill and ludlam in the back row. Curry underhill need to be able to do what they did at the world cup and preduce quick ball.

Genge
LCD
Sinks
Itoje
Kruis
Curry
Underhill
Ludlam

George
Marler(mako if fit)
Stuart
Lawes
Earl(or just bloody call up Dombrandt)

Thats the pack i want to see next week, Scotland dont have the size that french do so the mobility may be a good thing.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

The England team is super emotional and I think Eddie likes it that way.

In which case he's a bloody idiot. That's only ever going to give big highs and big lows.

Consistent hard headedness and pragmatism are the order of the day. It's one of the areas where the ABs have been so outstanding down the years, and will be again. They don't do emotion down there.

I don't know what sort of team I want to see next week. Jones unquestionably let the players down, but equally far too many players badly let themselves down too. Benching the likes of Itoje and George might send a message that will benefit us in the long run.

 

[Every Time Ref]

For all the terrible selection decisions, especially at 8 and 9, I agree with others that this loss was mental at root. I knew it as soon as we started badly, never thought we had a chance. It's just so depressingly familiar with EJ's England, if they don't come out the blocks as a bullying juggernaut, they never get in the game.

Is Eddie not coaching what to do in these scenarios? Genuinely doesn't seem to be. Psychologically we put all our eggs in one basket

Plan A - start fast and overwhelm the opposition
Plan B - panic and whinge

Nothing has changed in that regard since the Italy debacle.

And Owen Farrell has always, always been at the heart of England's **** performances. The Italy game he was all over the place and missed a few easy kicks. Scotland x2 (battered at Murrayfield and "The Comeback") he had terrible defensive performances (which no commentators mentioned). Today we've just seen. How in God's name does this "Iceman" myth persist?! Is it just because every journalist and pundit is scared of his Dad?!

Throwing the ball out to the winger vs 4 defenders was not the best idea really

This literally turned out to be our best attacking strategy by a considerable distance. Not your fault, but ... this comment actually ages quite badly!

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Won't get the chance to watch this til tomorrow evening. Can't wait though. Love a bit of jouer!

 

[willutalk]

Marler 5
George 6
Sinkler 6
Itoje 4
Ewels 5
Lawes 7
Underhill 6
Curry 6
Youngs 3
Ford 4
Daly 4
Farrell 4
Tuilagi (N/A)
May 9
Furbank 5

Genge 7
LCD 6
Stuart (N/A)
Kruis 7
Ludlum 7
Hienz 8
Devoto (N/A)
Joseph 6

players ratings for me. (N/A) means I didn't see enough of them to properly rate them.

will update this post with justifications later

 

[bushytop]

Marler 5
George 6
Sinkler 6
Itoje 4
Ewels 5
Lawes 7
Underhill 6
Curry 6
Youngs 3
Ford 4
Daly 4
Farrell 4
Tuilagi (N/A)
May 9
Furbank 5

Genge 7
LCD 6
Stuart (N/A)
Kruis 7
Ludlum 7
Hienz 8
Devoto (N/A)
Joseph 6

players ratings for me. (N/A) means I didn't see enough of them to properly rate them.

will update this post with justifications later

Are you Courtney Lawes' mum or something?

 

[Scotty]

Lawes didnt have the worst game, he just was being judged as a 6 while playing like a lock. And shouldnt have been put in that position.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

For all the terrible selection decisions, especially at 8 and 9, I agree with others that this loss was mental at root. I knew it as soon as we started badly, never thought we had a chance. It's just so depressingly familiar with EJ's England, if they don't come out the blocks as a bullying juggernaut, they never get in the game.

Is Eddie not coaching what to do in these scenarios? Genuinely doesn't seem to be. Psychologically we put all our eggs in one basket

Plan A - start fast and overwhelm the opposition
Plan B - panic and whinge

Nothing has changed in that regard since the Italy debacle.

And Owen Farrell has always, always been at the heart of England's **** performances. The Italy game he was all over the place and missed a few easy kicks. Scotland x2 (battered at Murrayfield and "The Comeback") he had terrible defensive performances (which no commentators mentioned). Today we've just seen. How in God's name does this "Iceman" myth persist?! Is it just because every journalist and pundit is scared of his Dad?!

This literally turned out to be our best attacking strategy by a considerable distance. Not your fault, but ... this comment actually ages quite badly!

I think England have no other option because Jones doesn't. Farrell was butterfingers, possibly injured and all over the place all game yet he only brought Devoto on at the 75th minute. WTF is the point of a 5 minute cameo? A player may not even see the ball in that time. Youngs, Farrell and Lawes all should have been off by half time rather than these ridiculous super late changes Jones likes doing. If you are going to sub a player on at least give them enough time to properly impact the game.

Also ditto on the whole Farrell "iceman" bullshit. It's the same as his kicking accuracy. He was being called a solid kicker when Ford's kicking % was above his and he had one of the lowest of any kicker bar the Italian 10. Farrell misses a **** load of kicks in 1 game, ah well day off. Ford does it? Proof he can't kick. Farrell has been at the heart of nearly every catastrophic England embarrassment and is certainly not captain material. It might sound very negative and I don't actually want him dropped but I do want this myth about his invincibility and supreme rugby ability to vanish, he simply isn't that fantastic and is actually mentally very frail. People say Ford can't recover when the team is behind but when has Farrell EVER done that brings a team back for England at 10? Ford produces moments of magic more frequently than Farrell does and his tactical kicking is currently superior. Farrell is more likely to lose his head and fly out the line either leaving a dogleg or making a bad tackle. Ultimately Ford and Farrell get judged completely differently for the same performances.

I'd like to see some of the "big names" subbed off earlier or benched. I don't want them out the team but some are there by default without keeping their form up.

 

[duncanb]

Firstly well played France took your few chances well two great tries and one where Jonny May stopped instead of making easy tackle and stopping play debate about who touched the ball first is irrelevant when a world class winger makes a school boy howler.
Mr Edwards you are best defense coach in world rugby well done.
Surely next head coach somewhere..
On another day itoje stealing over throw falls over line and scores.
Kruis dots ball down and isn't turned.
JJ doesn't drop ball and stretched out to score.
However none of these happened and we deserved to lose.
Next week just another game forget what went wrong look at want was ok.
Dicked French front row.
Disrupted line outs.
Found a defensive full back.
You can beat a good defense by going round the edges.
For me next week.
Genge better around the park than Marler.
LCD form hooker in Europe at present.
Williams strong scrummage.
Itoje worse game in England shirt silly pens but one off hopefully.
Kruis add bulk and can blow out after 50.
Underhill
Curry
Dombrant have to bring in ball carrier.
God knows.
Farrell.
May
Devoto
Dingwall
Watson
Furbank

Mako
George
Sinkler
Lawes best lock on pitch but playing 6.
Ludlow or Earl.
God knows
Ford
James

tough on Ewels who was decent .
JJ passed it I'm afraid.
Daly forget the need for long range kicker.

2 out of 35 and 2 in.

 

[Which Tyler]

I think England have no other option because Jones doesn't.

And after all that, we say that the problems are that we had no #8, the 9 was an active instruction, an IC and captain who couldn't catch the ball, couldn't it tackle with one shoulder, and who had no tactical house or leadership ability.
Common solution (not yours)? It's the FH's fault, because he tried a couple of things that didn't come off! Not that Ford was good, of course, just not as bad as those around him.


Next week
1. MVunipola
2. George (c)
3. Sinckler
4. Itoje
5. Kruis
6. Curry
7. Underhill
8. Earl

9. Heinz
10. Ford
11. May
12. Devoto
13. Tuilagi / Joseph
14. Daly / Watson
15. Watson / Furbank

16. LCD, 17. Genge, 18. Stuart, 19. Ewels, 20. Ludlam
21. Youngs, 22.Farrell, 23. Furbank/Daly


Simmonds/Kvesic/Dombrandt/Harrison/Morgan/Mercer brought into the wider squad to get into speed for match 3 - Mercer would be the best face-saver, assuming he's close enough to returning from injury, Kvesic has the most recent experience with the squad (is he fit?). Otherwise, he's made his bed with the squad, and now has to lie in it IMO.


Front Row: IMO Mako and Marler get selected on a horses for courses, Genge gets to bench throughout this 6N to get more experience. George is a better leader than Farrell, and is in the best position to lead from, captaincy aside, I'd give LCD his chance. Sinckler has a poor game, but he's stil our best THP, Stuart needs more than 3 minutes.
Locks: We o it need 2 of them, preferably our best pairing. Ewels wouldn't be my choice initially, but played better than Lawes, and if he was bad enough individually to deserve dropping then we have to replace a full dozen - definitely doesn't deserve scape-goat status.
Back Row: Earl is the closest thing to a #8 in the wider squad. The closest England have ever come to making 3 locks work was when one of them was Croft. Have either of Lawes/Itoje had even 1 good game wearing 6?

SH: Young is terrible, and has been for a while now. There's no-one putting their hands up and demanding selection, and we've only got 2 SHs in the wider squad (and Irish or Welsh juniors we can target?), so he either benches, or we play without a bench SH. Ford is simply a better rugby player and a better FH than Farrell. It also means that the 3 worst performing players today (all of them seniors who are supposed to be calm heads) are dropped from the starting XV.
Midfield: Imagine that, an inside centre and an outside centre, playing together in the centres. You know what? It might just work!
Back 3: May and Watson have to start (if fit) so it's really a selection between Furbank and Daly, Daly can be good on the wing (but hasn't yet at FB), no shame for Furbank in sitting on the bench.

 

[barthelemy]

https://twitter.com/theblitzdefence/status/1224006180172857344

 

[bushytop]

Around about 8mins in or so... sounds like Eddie sees Curry as being an 8 more than a 7 long term !

 

[Jashay]

And after all that, we say that the problems are that we had no #8, the 9 was an active instruction, an IC and captain who couldn't catch the ball, couldn't it tackle with one shoulder, and who had no tactical house or leadership ability.
Common solution (not yours)? It's the FH's fault, because he tried a couple of things that didn't come off! Not that Ford was good, of course, just not as bad as those around him.


Next week
1. MVunipola
2. George (c)
3. Sinckler
4. Itoje
5. Kruis
6. Curry
7. Underhill
8. Earl

9. Heinz
10. Ford
11. May
12. Devoto
13. Tuilagi / Joseph
14. Daly / Watson
15. Watson / Furbank

16. LCD, 17. Genge, 18. Stuart, 19. Ewels, 20. Ludlam
21. Youngs, 22.Farrell, 23. Furbank/Daly

I'd still take Marler over Mako, but otherwise I like this selection. Precisely 0% chance of it happening, but it looks balanced.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Around about 8mins in or so... sounds like Eddie sees Curry as being an 8 more than a 7 long term !

Sigh

 

[bushytop]

Sigh

Yeah if I were English that would be the imperfect end to a frustrating day. He is pretty much the perfect seven... something you guys have struggled to find for around 10 years. Then you don't just find any old open side, you get a guy who could be the absolute best and Eddie wants to tinker for some unknown reason.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

He'll also literally never play there at club level so would only be able to get any practise in in actual test match situations.
Mental.

 

[bushytop]

He'll also literally never play there at club level so would only be able to get any practise in in actual test match situations.
Mental.

Yeah it's not as if Sale are struggling for 8's either...

 

[Scotty]

Around about 8mins in or so... sounds like Eddie sees Curry as being an 8 more than a 7 long term !

Really hoping that meand long term option of emergancy cover. Do not want curry as an 8, worried about carrying and being in a carrying role when his skills stand at the breakdown and a carrier second.

Like dombrandt is a carrier first but can get turn overs and offloads but his main stength is his carrying and picking good line. You wouldnt line him up at 7. Without a carrier this back row is not balanced, big carrier at 8 allows you to have underhill and curry. Having curry at 8 does not allow you to have an extra linout jumper at 6.