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[2021 Rugby Championship] Round 5 South Africa v New Zealand (25/9/2021)

GoTheNaki

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We had a an extended currie cup..
So its really hard to even make anything of this version of South Africa right now... This year is pretty much a right off for a team like that. Is anything happening for them at the end of the year?
 

GoTheNaki

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Constant? i made like three posts. Jog on fella.

Beaudan was poor because they didn't give him any opportunities to attack a broken line. You know, until the end when it resulted in a penalty that cost them the game.
Barrett has been poor for years, always choked in big games. He doesn't attack a line, he is always going to pass, the reason why he goes through at the end of games is because he finally runs at a tired opponent. If the opponent is relentless for 80minutes he does naff all.
 

Derpus

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Barrett has been poor for years, always choked in big games. He doesn't attack a line, he is always going to pass, the reason why he goes through at the end of games is because he finally runs at a tired opponent. If the opponent is relentless for 80minutes he does naff all.
Except, i suppose, when he set up a try in the RWC game they won the last time these two teams played each other?
 

ChicagoKid

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Overall, I thought both teams played hard, but poorly. Boks with the penalities and AB's with the constant handling errors. Good to see the Boks step-up after a poor performance against Australia. People will overreact to a two-point scoreline, but the Boks will need at least the fall and 2022 to develop a cohesive attacking plan. You can't learn on the fly against the best teams in the world.
 

Kiwiwomble

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That….was not a good game to watch

akira completely invisible except when he dropped the ball cold with the line beckoning

tj and bb were so slow! Havili had a rough night but largely due to it taking so long to get the ball to him, had the rush on him every time…also why reiko did nothing…never got the ball

too many handling errors and too many turn overs

the bokke played EXACTLY as expected…and we were still unprepared, that’s on fozzie

blackadder looked very comfortable, if not for Jordie he’d be my man if the match
 

Cruz_del_Sur

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I sometimes dont get the nz's plan. It's They make things unnecessarily difficult for themselves. Against a team like RSA, with your talent (nz's), play territory, dont make unforced errors, force RSA to open up and take risks, and exploit that, which is precisely where the ABs excel at.
I thought the ref was ok, except on that last play. I saw a highish tackle on Vermuelen on that last play, from a kickable position.

I do get RSA's plan, i just think they need to improve their execution, particularly with regards to kicking.
 

Alex Anghel

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McKenzie at least threatened the line :), unlike Barrett. I'd have rather McKenzie come on for him at this point. The thing is, with what the Northern Hemisphere teams, and South Africa like to do to us, fast defending line, when you have a 10 that doesn't want to attack the line, they ABUSE us, just like England ABUSED us, we had no go-forward with the ball in hand. That is NOT how we play rugby.
Wasn’t Richie playing at 10 in that fateful semis against England?

My observation was that it looked odd to play Dmac as a winger instead of coming in for Beaudie.
 

Alex Anghel

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That….was not a good game to watch

akira completely invisible except when he dropped the ball cold with the line beckoning

tj and bb were so slow! Havili had a rough night but largely due to it taking so long to get the ball to him, had the rush on him every time…also why reiko did nothing…never got the ball

too many handling errors and too many turn overs

the bokke played EXACTLY as expected…and we were still unprepared, that’s on fozzie

blackadder looked very comfortable, if not for Jordie he’d be my man if the match
Blackadder was immense. I still believe NZ should play specialist in specialist loose positions, I was again worried when I saw Ardie at 8.
 

Alex Anghel

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So, another debate, Jordie vs DMac, put to bed right now. It’s clear that Jordie must start at 15.
 

Hydraulxx

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So its really hard to even make anything of this version of South Africa right now... This year is pretty much a right off for a team like that. Is anything happening for them at the end of the year?
We play Wales, Scotland and England in November
 

Umaga's Witness

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Gotta love the post match interview with kolisi.
Reporter: an improved performance, how did you turn it around after losing twice to the wallabies?
Kolisi: against the wallabies we tried to play a lot, this game we went back to what we are good at - kicking.

Faf, mbonambi, kwagga, kolisi, very good for SA.
Pollard just typical pollard at this level , he’s rarely up to test level standard, had a pretty poor test career apart from a few outstanding performances, eg World Cup final.
 

NZbloke

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Barrett has been poor for years, always choked in big games. He doesn't attack a line, he is always going to pass, the reason why he goes through at the end of games is because he finally runs at a tired opponent. If the opponent is relentless for 80minutes he does naff all.
BB hasn't been poor for years, he's just much better suited to playing at fullback or on the wing... the bloke doesn't have the mindset to play at 10, lacks the composure there, we saw that again last night with all his aimless kicking & other poor option taking in the playmaking role.
 

Gay-Guy

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100th test and Springboks go back to what worked for them in 1921.

Beauden is never going to take the 10 jersey from Mounga as the speed of the ball leaving his hand is not as fast. DMac passes faster than Beaudy. Beauden also has not got the speed he once had. I am afraid with his brother being a better punter and goal kicker the days of Beaudy starting at 15 may also be over.

All Blacks need to go back to the days of the light and heavy winger combinations. Williams and Batty, Fraser and Wilson, Kirwan and Wright, Jonah and Wilson, Gear and Rokocoko, Kahui and Jane, Savea and Skudder. When the All Blacks played England they chose not to have a power winger and paid the price. Yesterday they excluded a power winger and had 3 bomb defusers at the back which makes for a one dimensional back field gameplan. They would have done better if Clarke or Fainganuku were playing on the right wing instead of Bridge. Even Wallabies know to play the light heavy wing combination with Koroibete and Kelleher. It gives the outside backs more options for the opposition defence to consider.

Faf's box kick game is top class. Kiwis had trouble figuring out whether it was underspin or overspin with every kick let alone trying to catch it under pressure. I suspect Faf has done his homework and knows what type of spin Bridge, Jordan, and Barrett struggles to catch. Near the end you could see Jordie looking at the spin on the bombs and calling Dmac to catch it even though he was closer.

Boks defence at the lineout was immense. Boks also got ascendency on the scrum when the reserves came on. Both teams did not dominate their mauls and also cancelled each other out in the middle of the park.

Footage of the All Blacks training showed their backs hitting the line quite flat...a different approach to the Wallabies who had their spine standing further back. The All Blacks backs looked like they were trying to play a Crusaders type of attack with Hurricane halves.

Once Jacobson could not play then NZ was stuffed as they need a true grafter at 8. Savea is too light to be an 8. Akira and Sotutu are inconsistent at 8 with the dirty work. Blackadder is a fetcher/link player and could be an 8 in time but not yesterday. Jacobson's withdrawal impacted the NZ loosies chemistry more than people realised and you could see that lack of linking when it came to supporting tackled players.

Brodie (like BB) is struggling to regain his mojo. The question is whether he ever will? Will he have a career resurgence like Carter or will it be like Read? Brodie did show his defence has returned...all he has to do is get that offensive confidence back. He missed a few tail pass opportunities that would have opened things up and some of his communication with his pod was off.

The All Blacks pack looked tired trying to take the Boks up front and perhaps were trying to redeem themselves from the England game. They did hold their own but part of that could be down to the Bok pack not having more variety in their attack. They need to know when to change tactics but I suspect this was because there was a lack of leadership. Ardie is the captain but there was hardly any talk from him and subsequently the team until the final quarter. Maybe TJ should have been the captain?
 

NZbloke

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Too many silly mistakes by ABs, also turned over a heap of possession at the breakdown because we didn't get enough numbers there to clean out - also annoyed we went back to Aaron Smith type stuff trying to get the ball wide to the backs too often without doing the hard yakka through the forwards first, so naturally our backs were going to get smothered... making a lot of changes again certainly didn't help either.

Boks don't have to play all this one-dimensional crap - Pollard is a good running 1st-five & also the 9 de Klerk is good at making darting runs around the edges, it's obvious their coaching staff have told their playmakers to basically bombard opposition with up & unders all day bloody long, that's only one area of the game, doesn't show any insight whatsoever... no one is asking the Boks to play like the ABs, just mix up their tactics a bit, which would definitely make them harder to beat.
 

NZbloke

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All Blacks need to go back to the days of the light and heavy winger combinations. Williams and Batty, Fraser and Wilson, Kirwan and Wright, Jonah and Wilson, Gear and Rokocoko, Kahui and Jane, Savea and Skudder. When the All Blacks played England they chose not to have a power winger and paid the price. Yesterday they excluded a power winger and had 3 bomb defusers at the back which makes for a one dimensional back field gameplan. They would have done better if Clarke or Fainganuku were playing on the right wing instead of Bridge. Even Wallabies know to play the light heavy wing combination with Koroibete and Kelleher. It gives the outside backs more options for the opposition defence to consider.

Faf's box kick game is top class. Kiwis had trouble figuring out whether it was underspin or overspin with every kick let alone trying to catch it under pressure. I suspect Faf has done his homework and knows what type of spin Bridge, Jordan, and Barrett struggles to catch. Near the end you could see Jordie looking at the spin on the bombs and calling Dmac to catch it even though he was closer.

Good point about having better balance in the team - for example our best AB midfield combo ever would have to be Conrad Smith/Nonu, a power player & the smaller type player that was the organizer, I'd always tend to play the bigger more powerful bloke at 2nd-five, as they're closer to the rucks & mauls where most of the heavy traffic is.

de Klerk may have applied a bit of spin on the ball, but that's no excuse for us dropping so much aerial ball, we were just poor in the air... also most of de Klerks up & unders went too far so there was hardly any pressure from their chasers on us.... Our lineouts were a mess, our jumpers lacked aggression, needed to get in front of their marker aggressively attacking the ball in the air... instead we allowed them to come across our lineout to constantly disrupt our ball.
 

Ruggerz

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That….was not a good game to watch

akira completely invisible except when he dropped the ball cold with the line beckoning

tj and bb were so slow! Havili had a rough night but largely due to it taking so long to get the ball to him, had the rush on him every time…also why reiko did nothing…never got the ball

too many handling errors and too many turn overs

the bokke played EXACTLY as expected…and we were still unprepared, that’s on fozzie

blackadder looked very comfortable, if not for Jordie he’d be my man if the match
My thoughts exactly.

Hopefully Jacobsen will be right for next week and then Ardie goes to seven and Blackadder plays at 6.
 

Umaga's Witness

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That….was not a good game to watch

akira completely invisible except when he dropped the ball cold with the line beckoning

tj and bb were so slow! Havili had a rough night but largely due to it taking so long to get the ball to him, had the rush on him every time…also why reiko did nothing…never got the ball

too many handling errors and too many turn overs

the bokke played EXACTLY as expected…and we were still unprepared, that’s on fozzie

blackadder looked very comfortable, if not for Jordie he’d be my man if the match
With any sport the more you try things the less likely you are to win but the more likely you are to develop. I remember two extremes at my uni hostel - we had a table tennis table and i would always want to win, so I was disciplined, focused, error free, always playing just below my abilities. And I usually won. Another guy just liked playing around, trying trick shots and fancy things, pushing passed the edge of his abilities. I would beat this guy easily at the start of the year, but by the end of the year he was the best player in the hostel.

personally I’d prefer for a game like this that you just focus on winning, but I think foster wants to keep on developing his players. Certainly they would have gained a lot from this game by trying to play how they want to be able to play, in a tough and tense game, under pressure.

they could have tried to play smarter, and won this game more easily, but there’ll be a game down the line where executing a skill based game under pressure will be the only way we can win.
100th test and Springboks go back to what worked for them in 1921.

Beauden is never going to take the 10 jersey from Mounga as the speed of the ball leaving his hand is not as fast. DMac passes faster than Beaudy. Beauden also has not got the speed he once had. I am afraid with his brother being a better punter and goal kicker the days of Beaudy starting at 15 may also be over.

All Blacks need to go back to the days of the light and heavy winger combinations. Williams and Batty, Fraser and Wilson, Kirwan and Wright, Jonah and Wilson, Gear and Rokocoko, Kahui and Jane, Savea and Skudder. When the All Blacks played England they chose not to have a power winger and paid the price. Yesterday they excluded a power winger and had 3 bomb defusers at the back which makes for a one dimensional back field gameplan. They would have done better if Clarke or Fainganuku were playing on the right wing instead of Bridge. Even Wallabies know to play the light heavy wing combination with Koroibete and Kelleher. It gives the outside backs more options for the opposition defence to consider.

Faf's box kick game is top class. Kiwis had trouble figuring out whether it was underspin or overspin with every kick let alone trying to catch it under pressure. I suspect Faf has done his homework and knows what type of spin Bridge, Jordan, and Barrett struggles to catch. Near the end you could see Jordie looking at the spin on the bombs and calling Dmac to catch it even though he was closer.

Boks defence at the lineout was immense. Boks also got ascendency on the scrum when the reserves came on. Both teams did not dominate their mauls and also cancelled each other out in the middle of the park.

Footage of the All Blacks training showed their backs hitting the line quite flat...a different approach to the Wallabies who had their spine standing further back. The All Blacks backs looked like they were trying to play a Crusaders type of attack with Hurricane halves.

Once Jacobson could not play then NZ was stuffed as they need a true grafter at 8. Savea is too light to be an 8. Akira and Sotutu are inconsistent at 8 with the dirty work. Blackadder is a fetcher/link player and could be an 8 in time but not yesterday. Jacobson's withdrawal impacted the NZ loosies chemistry more than people realised and you could see that lack of linking when it came to supporting tackled players.

Brodie (like BB) is struggling to regain his mojo. The question is whether he ever will? Will he have a career resurgence like Carter or will it be like Read? Brodie did show his defence has returned...all he has to do is get that offensive confidence back. He missed a few tail pass opportunities that would have opened things up and some of his communication with his pod was off.

The All Blacks pack looked tired trying to take the Boks up front and perhaps were trying to redeem themselves from the England game. They did hold their own but part of that could be down to the Bok pack not having more variety in their attack. They need to know when to change tactics but I suspect this was because there was a lack of leadership. Ardie is the captain but there was hardly any talk from him and subsequently the team until the final quarter. Maybe TJ should have been the captain?
Interesting post but I’m curious why you say it looks like we are trying to attack crusaders style. I’m guessing you mean brad mooar crusaders days, because it doesn’t look like the crusaders of the last couple of seasons, who rarely play flat, only do so when they have front foot ball and or the defence is disorganized.
 

NZbloke

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With any sport the more you try things the less likely you are to win but the more likely you are to develop. I remember two extremes at my uni hostel - we had a table tennis table and i would always want to win, so I was disciplined, focused, error free, always playing just below my abilities. And I usually won. Another guy just liked playing around, trying trick shots and fancy things, pushing passed the edge of his abilities. I would beat this guy easily at the start of the year, but by the end of the year he was the best player in the hostel.
Yeah, doesn't matter what sport you play if you want to improve it's vital to push yourself - in rugby if you play in a certain position need to practice all the skills for that position trying to put yourself under real pressure situations tons of times at training, until it becomes second nature... then when you actually play a match you have the confidence to execute those skill sets well.
 

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