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[2021 Six Nations] England Squad

Rinkadink

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I looked into the numbers behind this at the end of last year, and Jones has generally been really good at bringing in new forwards and really, really bad at bringing in new backs.
Good stuff and that makes a lot of sense. Comparing the England side vs Wales against the one I named there I guess most would lean towards not going too ham replacing the forwards that played, maybe shuffle one or two/bench, etc... But in a parallel universe 9-15 could have been entirely replaced.
 
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ragerancher

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Genge seems too easy to wind up and I don't think there is a place for him until he can control it. He got away with grabbing a Welsh players head and shoving it into the ground when the Welsh player was in a ruck because he had wound Genge up.
 

TRF_Olyy

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Didn't Tom Croft have a site of "stupid stuff Ben said"? or am I mis-remembering?
That was class - looks like they've deleted it now though
 

Geordiefalcon

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Ok bad day at the office all round for England....

Yet there were some improved performances by some...

So does Eddie wave the axe...surely it would be warranted for some...Elliot Daly for starters...or does he continue with his clear policy of using the 6n to get his Sarries boys fit and in some kind of form...which does have glimpses of working now (Billy V etc)

Or a bit of both...drop a few..

England need 3 things...
1. Cut out the incredible number of penalties..(even though i was very confused at some of those given against Itoje)
2. Need a heavy duty carrier in the backs...either centre or wing...Lawrence / Odogwu. Shame Cockasaniga isnt in form.
3. Need to find some genuine leaders. Intimidating yet fair ones...that people truly respect. England are dearly lacking this at the moment
 

ncurd

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Honestly I'm pretty pessimistic, I suspect we'll see no changes of note with even if not publicly said "the ref changing the nature of the game" as an excuse internally.

I only see two outcomes to change things
1) We lose the next two games and sack EJ
2) EJ is forced into a Lions induced shake up in the summer and modifies the team in the winter based on what he sees.

I'm not convinced number 2 will happen under EJ.
 

TRF_Olyy

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I don't think either will happen, tbh

I'm far from convinced we'll beat both Ireland and France but I can't see EJ getting sacked 2years from a RWC,
I also don't think we'll see any changes bar Martin out of the 23 for a more senior player
 

ncurd

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I don't think either will happen, tbh

I'm far from convinced we'll beat both Ireland and France but I can't see EJ getting sacked 2years from a RWC,
I also don't think we'll see any changes bar Martin out of the 23 for a more senior player
Yeah number 1 is my only hope but it might take an entire year of losses to happen and then we'll have a new coach 1 year out.

And it's all bloody depressing as hell.
 

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How quick is Odogwu? Im curious, When slade made that break and almost turned the wrong way (preventing his offload before being caught be LRZ from behind) do you think Odogwu's pace and power would have really stood out here, especially after Ford's sumptuous pass?
 

TRF_Olyy

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Probably not - Odogwu is quick but his selling point is his speed off the mark/agility, top speed is probably similar to/less than May
 

Jakedood

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Theninteresting thing is Slade needed only to be fast enough to engage the full back in the scenario, not reach the try line himself... As ive said, thought slade was not great again, and could be very much at risk come the time the autumn games roll around, by which time the new young boys will hopefully have enough system and structural knowledge to be able to take his place
 

TRF_Olyy

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Actually I misread your comment - I thought you meant if he received a pass instead of May rather than if he'd made the break rather than Slade

Are you mixing Slade and Daly up? There was a break by Daly where he turned the wrong way and went for the fend rather than the pass outside - if that was Odogwu I've no doubt he would have broken the tackle, he's really really strong
 

Geordiefalcon

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Yeah, Odogwu is more the combination of power and pace. Im really surprised he hasnt had any gametime yet to be honest.

But then i cant work out what Jones is doing with Lawrence either...
 

Jakedood

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Actually I misread your comment - I thought you meant if he received a pass instead of May rather than if he'd made the break rather than Slade

Are you mixing Slade and Daly up? There was a break by Daly where he turned the wrong way and went for the fend rather than the pass outside - if that was Odogwu I've no doubt he would have broken the tackle, he's really really strong
Quite possibly, it was the break where there was a gorgeous flat pass from Ford putting either slade/Daly though on first phase possession?
 

Jakedood

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Yeah, Odogwu is more the combination of power and pace. Im really surprised he hasnt had any gametime yet to be honest.

But then i cant work out what Jones is doing with Lawrence either...
I think its important to learn the structures in rugby almost more than any other sport. Each time has different styles and expects you in different places attacking wise and defensively, and these need to be bedded in, so Its quite common to be in camp for a whole tournament before actually making you debut in the next international block. I think you'll see a lot of him in Canada/USA, and EJ will be keenly looking at him in terms of his ability within the structures. If he can show this, we may see a lot more of him in AN
 

TRF_Olyy

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Quite possibly, it was the break where there was a gorgeous flat pass from Ford putting either slade/Daly though on first phase possession?
I'm pretty sure that was Daly, I remember being very annoyed he didn't pass

Then again his passes to May later on, on the wing, weren't great - left him were zero space to work with
 

Jakedood

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I'm pretty sure that was Daly, I remember being very annoyed he didn't pass

Then again his passes to May later on, on the wing, weren't great - left him were zero space to work with
The body position was really poor, didnt even give him a chance to offload in the end
 

Geordiefalcon

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Dalys passing all tournament has been poor...and thats one of the key reasons hes in there...his passing and creativity.

If that aspect of his game is not performing then we'd be better giving young Steward a few games...he can become the rock at the back.
 

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A few personal observations about personel

Mako, whilst not fully fit I'm fine with his overall performance
George, is out of form. LCD to start
Itoje, feel a bit for him as two of those pens weren't pens and another was 50/50. Still our best avaible lock
Hill has done nothing that I've seen to suggest he is international class. Ewels is a lightweight version of Hill. So medicore it's untrue
Curry, whilst not at his best (albeit it appears that jacklers are not been rewarded as they were last season) is still a class act
Billy, best game in two years and still only a 7/10 for me
Wilson. Has been average last 2 games. Plenty of alternatives around
Young, played OK, but needs changing for someone with more threat and speed to get to the breakdiwn
Ford, poor. I actually rate him but can't remember the last good game he had for us
Farrel, an improvement, but offers nothing at Inside centre
Slade see Ford
May, solid under high ball and was given some awful passes by Daly and Slade
Watson, class acy who is getting back to his best
Daly, offers nothing going forward and terrible in defence
 

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