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[2021 Six Nations] England Squad

NickBD

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Honestly I'm pretty pessimistic, I suspect we'll see no changes of note with even if not publicly said "the ref changing the nature of the game" as an excuse internally.

I only see two outcomes to change things
1) We lose the next two games and sack EJ
2) EJ is forced into a Lions induced shake up in the summer and modifies the team in the winter based on what he sees.

I'm not convinced number 2 will happen under EJ.

I think option 2 is more likely then 1. He has dropped his favs when it got to the point when he had to before, Haskell, Robshaw, Care and others. Also had a good record with young players just since the WC final it's like he's stopped doing it for whatever reason. This last 12 months I can see some similarities to 2018, previous year of good results but poor play and followed by predictively bad play and bad results. He did bring in new players after, so you'd hope he does the same this time round. He ain't getting sacked, not sure RFU could afford to even if they wanted to.
 

TRF_Olyy

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Rumour at tigers is Borthwick is in talks with Kruis.
So he will be at Sale then......
Honestly a bit surprised I've not seen rumours for him yet,

People have been talking about Isiekwe, Koch and now Lozowski - basically any Saracens player who's contract isn't concrete
 

Akker Van Der Tigs

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Honestly a bit surprised I've not seen rumours for him yet,

People have been talking about Isiekwe, Koch and now Lozowski - basically any Saracens player who's contract isn't concrete

I think people sort of just wrote him of since he's over 30, he will be around 34 by the next rugby world cup.
People sort of assume that this contract was it.
He does have the option of another year in Japan after this though if he and his club want it.
 

BrokenWing

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2) EJ is forced into a Lions induced shake up in the summer and modifies the team in the winter based on what he sees.

I'm not convinced number 2 will happen under EJ.
I'm not convinced the players that are the issue will even be going with the Lions and will get more game time to play themselves into form.
 

ncurd

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I'm not convinced the players that are the issue will even be going with the Lions and will get more game time to play themselves into form.
days jam GIF
 

TRF_Olyy

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Almost inevitable, really

Last Lions tour we were all looking forward to seeing new players in our key positions (and same again, 4years on) of 8,9,10 and 15

Care, Ford and Mike Brown started all three games,
Hughes started both tests
We capped Maunder but only for 2minutes

That said we did get a number of others involved - Genge and Williams got plenty of time in the front row,
Lozowski and Piers Francis got time in the centres (though I vaguely remember Francis having a shocker?)
Cunderhill and Wilson came through

Singleton went all the way to Argentina and didn't make it off the bench,
I remember there were a few players that went solely to hold tackle bags - Believe Sam James was told he was going to be playing in the 2nd test, his family flew out to Argentina and then Francis was named on the bench instead

Solomona got his first cap, missed a really simple tackle to leak a try then scored a worldy to win it at the end

Very strange tour, all round
 

Don't Skip Leg Day

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I’m not sure what Jones looks for in players but he does seem to want something really specific. His treatment of players is odd and doesn’t make sense, some like Burrell pulled after 20 minutes of average international play yet others win tons of caps in really poor form.

I really think he’s lost the plot with 8 9,12 and 15. For some key roles they’ve been a weakness for ages and he hadn’t actually made an attempt to fix them. If there is a master plan I don’t think it’s working.
 

Old Hooker

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Well he was the captain, so.... :p

Saracens have never been short of leaders - Barritt, Wigglesworth, Burger
Then senior guys like Strettle, Wyles, Koch etc.

They've never been a one-man-leadership side
I know you said etc, but.....

......interesting you didn’t instinctively mention Itoje, the Vunipolae, George, Daly........

EDIT: bit harsh on Daly as he’s barely played for them, but even so most of their real big influences haven’t been their big name Eng stars.
 

RedruthRFC

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The current situation with Farrell, means he is taking ALL the responsibility, not a strength of his.
He needs to allow other around him to be more vocal and removing the captaincy would help.
This would represent a change of attitude from Eddie Jones if it is the case. I remember Jones making a big song and dance about appointing vice captians (probably under some weird name) earlier on in his tenure. IIRC he appointed Brown, Farrell and Billy in this role under Hartley's captaincy.
 

Old Hooker

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Actually if I were to pick anyone from the front row it would probably be Sinckler sure he can be hothead ala Hartley but the added responsilibility might calm him down. Added benefit he's a prop who fit enough to probably put on an extended stint.

Still Curry or Itoje in my book at out of current starters.
Difference being Hartley had several years of captaining Saints under his belt.

Captaincy is mainly about people management - on the pitch that’s your team and the ref all the while thinking clearly under pressure and making the right decisions. Plus as someone said previously a lot of Hartley’s work was done pre match, both with the players but also managing up - dealing with Jones.

Getting the best out of a diverse group of people is very difficult and there’s an inverse correlation between those who think they can people manage and those that actually can. Like any skill you need a natural knack for leadership and then need to hone that over an extended period. A national team, especially in today’s instant reaction goldfish bowl, should not be the place to do your apprenticeship.

I favour Launch to take us through to the next RWC.
 

Jakedood

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Difference being Hartley had several years of captaining Saints under his belt.

Captaincy is mainly about people management - on the pitch that’s your team and the ref all the while thinking clearly under pressure and making the right decisions. Plus as someone said previously a lot of Hartley’s work was done pre match, both with the players but also managing up - dealing with Jones.

Getting the best out of a diverse group of people is very difficult and there’s an inverse correlation between those who think they can people manage and those that actually can. Like any skill you need a natural knack for leadership and then need to hone that over an extended period. A national team, especially in today’s instant reaction goldfish bowl, should not be the place to do your apprenticeship.

I favour Launch to take us through to the next RWC.
When Kruis comes back though, will Launch even be a starter? This should be a prerequisite
 

Geordiefalcon

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What about some of the younger guys being looked at in the Summer / Autumn.

Is it too late for Isiekwe? Hes only 22 isnt he (feels like hes been around for years)

Then theres a few others like Kpoku, Bamber at Bristol etc?
 

Jakedood

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What about some of the younger guys being looked at in the Summer / Autumn.

Is it too late for Isiekwe? Hes only 22 isnt he (feels like hes been around for years)

Then theres a few others like Kpoku, Bamber at Bristol etc?
No chance of them for captain I'd suggest, again need to at least cement a place before being given the role
 

BPM

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What about some of the younger guys being looked at in the Summer / Autumn.

Is it too late for Isiekwe? Hes only 22 isnt he (feels like hes been around for years)

Then theres a few others like Kpoku, Bamber at Bristol etc?
I’m all for looking at some young players but these two are odd suggestions ...

Kpoku hasn’t played rugby in a year. Has Bamber ever even started for Bristol?
 

TRF_Olyy

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Who's Bamber?
Bamber Gascoigne, ex-presenter of university challenge?
When Kruis comes back though, will Launch even be a starter? This should be a prerequisite
I'm not sure he'd be a starter if he wasn't injured atm
EJ has never seemed to be that hot on him
 

Jakedood

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Saw article about EJ's caps analysis and players on the outskirts, completely forgot about it, but I'd say it's likely as well this summer if they're injury free, that the likes of Alfie the Barbarian and Randall really get a shot. Maybe off the bench, I'm not sure, but they both havent just been playing well, but rooting up trees. I think Randall was almost guaranteed it for the summer tour, and Barbeary is too much not it include at this point, if he recovers well
Combined with Willis performances, I think you could almost say England have players really pushing for spots, and actually it may be a highly different team in terms of explosiveness come the Autumn
One or two dynamic players can make a massive difference in a team

PS I mention Randall because although he seems to hold a defender when he wants, his passing is simply superb, and suits the game I think eddie is starting to migrate towards
 

Geordiefalcon

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I’m all for looking at some young players but these two are odd suggestions ...

Kpoku hasn’t played rugby in a year. Has Bamber ever even started for Bristol?
It doesnt seem to matter if players are playing for their clubs or not at the moment.

I merely thinking if Ewells and HIll are deemed not good enough (which judging by many forums it would appear) then Eddie will to delve deeper into the resources.
 

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