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[2021 Six Nations] England vs Italy (13/02/21)

TRF_Olyy

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1612813183364.png
 

Ainsthrilln

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So England will make Italy pay for its defeat against Scotland...
 

Oliver Madden

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England will win this game but I think on current form it is likely to be a lacklustre win by 15 or 20 points. I don’t expect fireworks. I hope we make a few changes.
 

Wasps92

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Play like we did against Scotland and we might lose... nah.

Like to see some changes to the starters, Farrell out and Ford in, I’d also like to see Randall at least in the 23.

Wish I was a fly on the wall in the England camp at the moment.
 

ncurd

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Here we go let's drop a flanker for a 2nd row and a center for a fly half, win but unconvincingly and convince ourselves we aren't going to finish 4th/5th if we carry on like this.
 

Scotty

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This is a team id be happy with...it wont happen,

Genge LCD Stuart
Itoje Hill
Willis Billy Curry
Robson Ford
Lawrence Slade
May Malins(15) Watson

George
Obano
Williams
Lawes
Earl
Randall
Faz
Odogwu(or Daly but give Odogwu a chance why not he is in the squad)
 

Reiser99

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This is a team id be happy with...it wont happen,

Genge LCD Stuart
Itoje Hill
Willis Billy Curry
Robson Ford
Lawrence Slade
May Malins(15) Watson

George
Obano
Williams
Lawes
Earl
Randall
Faz
Odogwu(or Daly but give Odogwu a chance why not he is in the squad)
I was going to say That's exactly what I'd go with and then I noticed you still left Billy in? WTF? Get Wilson in there instead.
 

TRF_Olyy

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I was going to say That's exactly what I'd go with and then I noticed you still left Billy in? WTF? Get Wilson in there instead.
Or even Earl

The whole argument of not being able to put Earl (or Simmonds) at 8 because they don't have the power that Billy does kind of falls apart when you realise Binny hasn't imposed himself on a game in about 3 years
 

Reiser99

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Or even Earl

The whole argument of not being able to put Earl (or Simmonds) at 8 because they don't have the power that Billy does kind of falls apart when you realise Binny hasn't imposed himself on a game in about 3 years
True, was thinking Earl is good as a sub, But Wilson could do the job too.
 

Scotty

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I was going to say That's exactly what I'd go with and then I noticed you still left Billy in? WTF? Get Wilson in there instead.
Id have wilson or earl in there happily but Billy is going nowhere so i just left him in, the other reason is because he is our 8 no matter his form so i want to see how Willis Curry Billy works. Would Willis Curry plea BS/OS or left and right?
 

TRF_Olyy

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Imagine Curry would go back to blindside, as that's where he plays when Underhill is on - doubt there's any change in the roles beyond scrum positioning though
 

Old Hooker

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By picking the rusty Sarries players in a small squad Jones has put himself between a rock and a hard place. Whether we think right or not they are almost certain to all (prob including Mako) start in the tougher games to come.

As they’re undercooked (and in some cases also horribly out of form) there’s a strong argument for playing them again v Italy to get rid of some rust. Unfortunately there’s an equally strong argument to say they should be replaced and other match sharp / more in form players given a shot.

I don’t think any of us would really have batted an eyelid if Jones had left out some / all of the Sarries contingent from the squad - we might have looked at it as a bit of gamble, but it would have been undeniably logical. As it is he’s backed himself into a corner and as with the Autumn we’re probably looking at a wasted opportunity to test new blood.
 

Jashay

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I think Billy Vunipola was the right choice back when he started and we didn't have any strong carriers in the backrow or midfield. But I feel like England have evolved since then to have a lot of decent carriers in the pack... Curry in particular feels like a more effective carrier than Billy these days whilst also being a much better all round player.

But even outside the future GOAT Curry I think Earl is shaping up to be an effective carrier, Genge always seems hard to stop, LCD often manages to punch an extra yard in contact, Itoje makes metres... I don't have a clear picture of Hill and Stuart's carrying abilities, but given that Hill managed to play 80 mins whilst topping tackles, ruck arrivals, and clearouts I'm happy to assume he's got enough puff to throw in a run or two as well.

And someone did some analysis the other week showing the Underhill was surprisingly effective too.

So yeah, frankly, I think we're at a point where we could drop Billy V without any negative impact on our carrying.
 

living sacrifice

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The only positive thing Billy does on the pitch is not give away any penalties....oh wait.
 

Which Tyler

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The only positive thing Billy does on the pitch is not give away any penalties....oh wait.
To be fair, he still ties up 2 defenders. It's that for that to be of any use, we need to generate quick ball.
Billy's not great at getting the ball back quickly, and Youngs wouldn't know what to do with it if he did.
 

Reiser99

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To be fair, he still ties up 2 defenders. It's that for that to be of any use, we need to generate quick ball.
Billy's not great at getting the ball back quickly, and Youngs wouldn't know what to do with it if he did.
Thing that irritates me most with Youngs is he would rather give away a holding on penalty and blame the forwards than actually get involved in the ruck if needed.
 

Old Hooker

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You still need people who can make the yards in heavy traffic and tie up defenders. Problem is that the game has moved on and biggest boy in the playground stuff doesn’t really work any more. There are plenty of boys nearly as big (and plenty smaller) who can take him on and his game doesn’t require opposition analysts to waste too much time in front of a screen.

Feels like Binny is still doing pretty much the same stuff as 4/5 years ago and Jones is surprised that it’s less effective. Ignoring that he seems less fit and has a few more injuries on the clock he (and many others) should learn from O’Driscoll who adapted his game magnificently as the game changed around him.

You can’t ignore the physical, but we need more smart. Pleased to hear reports of Dombrandt returning to form - he has the kind of rugby intelligence we need and his work rate can’t be less. Don’t know what position Barbeary will end up in, but his carrying style is great - fast twitch and raw boned while also smart in terms of lines taken and aware of support.
 

TBeastT

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Binny was comfortably at his best when EJ had him cut a few kilos off and he was playing at around 126kg. It was only a small amount of weight but it was so noticeable how much more mobile and explosive he was and how much more effective his footwork was. Now he’s clearly back up to being comfortably over 130 and I don’t really know why Jones is willing to put up with it given that he’s the one who wanted Billy leaner in the first place.
 

Geordiefalcon

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Id Like to see:
1 Genge - He really needs to put in some performances to match the hype now.
2 LCD
3 Stuart / SInkler
4 Itoje
5 Hill
6 Curry
7 Willis
8 Earl
 

living sacrifice

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To be fair, he still ties up 2 defenders. It's that for that to be of any use, we need to generate quick ball.
Billy's not great at getting the ball back quickly, and Youngs wouldn't know what to do with it if he did.
All our carriers tie up 2 defenders as the ruck ball and Young’s are so slow and predictable. It’s been like this since last year. Curry can do exactly the same job and do it better and then there’s actual 8a to pick as well.
 
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