[2021 Six Nations] England vs Italy (13/02/21)

[ncurd]

No I meant when did "England tried to do too much"

Yup and thats the quote the headline came from.

 

[Reiser99]

No I meant when did "England tried to do too much"

Clearly with all the possession they had. Jones is almost becoming delusional now.

 

[klitarris]

When?

I don't recall seeing us trying anything, let alone too much! Granted we didn't have much possession to play with, and what we did have wasn't always in good field position, but to say we tried too much is classic Jones deflection tactics!

 

[AlRums]

I don't recall seeing us trying anything, let alone too much! Granted we didn't have much possession to play with, and what we did have wasn't always in good field position, but to say we tried too much is classic Jones deflection tactics!

My intended point exactly

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

This is straight out of the Boris Johnson school of saying the first thing that comes into your head without stopping to process whether it's a good idea.

Even if he is trying to deflect, anyone with a scintilla of rugby understanding can see where the main problems are.

We've all moaned about Binny, Youngs and Faz over time but there's no doubt all have played much better than they've shown over the last year. So why isn't Jones getting the best (or even near it) out of them now?

In fact how many players have really blossomed on the international stage in the last 3 or 4 years under Jones? Become materially better or more influential players / real leaders in the team / feared by opposition? Curryhill certainly and Stuart but given their ages and evident talent it would have been a major disappointment if they hadn't. Itoje maybe a bit, although is he really much better than 3 years ago, ditto Sinckler? May definitely did but has regressed, although still has moments (and it's unfair to judge anyone with a shirt number of 11+ esp if they've moved to Glaws). Under Jones leadership who has really come through and grabbed international rugby by the nuts?

 

[ncurd]

I'd quite happily argue Mays over the last 3 years has been in the best form of his life, he was the reason we didn't lose many of the games we won. He'd be the first back on my team sheet every time even if he was off on Saturday.

I'm going to cut EJ some slack on the players, Farrell is in the biggest rut of his life but I don't think that's EJ fault he's clealry not executing on any level even the gameplan provided. Binny has had multiple injuries and never looked the same coming out. Youngs has alway not been consistently great and as time had moved on he's gotten worse. I don't think any of this is coaching the problem is them being undroppable which is where EJ is at fault, not for them playing badly.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I'd quite happily argue Mays over the last 3 years has been in the best form of his life, he was the reason we didn't lose many of the games we won. He'd be the first back on my team sheet every time even if he was off on Saturday.

I'm going to cut EJ some slack on the players, Farrell is in the biggest rut of his life but I don't think that's EJ fault he's clealry not executing on any level even the gameplan provided. Binny has had multiple injuries and never looked the same coming out. Youngs has alway not been consistently great and as time had moved on he's gotten worse. I don't think any of this is coaching the problem is them being undroppable which is where EJ is at fault, not for them playing badly.

Yep, everyone has peaks and troughs.

Credit in the bank is one thing, but no-one should have a sinecure.

Selection is every bit as important as coaching.

In athletics it was quite common to see athletes who'd been dropped from central funding respond by bouncing back to a higher level than before. Doesn't matter what walk of life, you'll never be right on top of your game if allowed to get overly comfortable.

 

[klitarris]

My intended point exactly

Thought so!

 

[ncurd]

What time do we really get to start complaining?

 

[Which Tyler]

What time do we really get to start complaining?

11 o'clock isn't it?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

What time do we really get to start complaining?

When we stop winning
Oh wait...

Mako is in a tough position there because he was obviously asked whether the team was undercooked but then also knows he's going to be in the next side despite not playing for ages and coming straight off injury

 

[Reiser99]

What time do we really get to start complaining?

Last week.

 

[klitarris]

What time do we really get to start complaining?

Why not start early, we all know what's going to happen!

Reports suggest that Farrell moves to 12 and Ford in at 10. Feel sorry for Lawrence, but I'm not surprised at all.

 

[Jashay]

If Lawrence moved to 13 I'd actually be happy with that, but I imagine it'll be Slade.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Eddie looking at the Ford/Farrell/Slade lineup

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

The main change I'm hoping for that I can actually maybe see happening is Malins getting a start. EJ would never drop Daly for a big game but he has been known to rotate a little bit against Italy in the past and he does seem genuinely interested in what Malins can offer.

Maybe I'm being too hopeful though.

 

[BiggusLaddus]

I'm not too bothered what team is picked here, it's Italy.

If Eddie addressees all the selection issues we've moaned about and picks a perfectly balanced team that puts in a great performance, it won't matter, its Italy and we know that Billy and Faz and Daly will all be back in next time.

 

[ncurd]

I think it matters because if he isn't willing to make the changes now (which he won't) are we really going to have to finish 5th (which we might, I certainly can't see us finishing higher than 4th) for it to be actual wake up call the management needs?

Basically if he makes the required changes theres a chance that team will carry on the tournament if he doesn't theres no chance it will.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I'm not too bothered what team is picked here, it's Italy.

If Eddie addressees all the selection issues we've moaned about and picks a perfectly balanced team that puts in a great performance, it won't matter, its Italy and we know that Billy and Faz and Daly will all be back in next time.

Yes I think that's right and we can probably expect the same old lags in other games while we have a shot at winning the ***le. I think we'd have to lose another match before Jones changes anything against better opponents than Ita.

When we stop winning
Oh wait...

Mako is in a tough position there because he was obviously asked whether the team was undercooked but then also knows he's going to be in the next side despite not playing for ages and coming straight off injury

And just remind me who has put him in that invidious position?

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Oof. LCD starting and Willis in the 23 are just about my only positives.