• Help Support The Rugby Forum :

[2021 Six Nations] England vs Scotland (06/02/21)

TRF_Olyy

English Arrogance
Staff member
TRF Legend
TRF Supporter
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
100,003,494
Reaction score
8,128
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

Sale

Lawrence is just there for no reason at all (and its not his fault)
The most frustrating part is that the (literally) only time he received the ball he made a halfbreak
Maybe if we'd have used him more early on it would keep defenders interested and open up more space out wide (as we wouldn't have kicked before it got that far....) but no - he was just there to fill the shirt and make tackles

Might as well have played an extra forward there (and considering Jones' approach to the game - maybe we'll see Willis there next week)
 

Tooting Carmen

Academy Player
Joined
Sep 18, 2018
Messages
384
Reaction score
37
Congratulations to the Scots. All the same, to what extent might the lack of game time for the Sarries players have been a factor?
 

ragerancher

International
TRF Legend
Joined
Sep 20, 2011
Messages
6,297
Reaction score
2,283
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

Bath

The most frustrating part is that the (literally) only time he received the ball he made a halfbreak
Maybe if we'd have used him more early on it would keep defenders interested and open up more space out wide (as we wouldn't have kicked before it got that far....) but no - he was just there to fill the shirt and make tackles

Might as well have played an extra forward there (and considering Jones' approach to the game - maybe we'll see Willis there next week)
And it was right after that break that he was taken off. Jones like "No no, none of that mate"
 

Jimbo

Bench Player
Joined
Feb 19, 2018
Messages
862
Reaction score
266
Country Flag

UK

Club or Nation

London Wasps

Congratulations to the Scots. All the same, to what extent might the lack of game time for the Sarries players have been a factor?
Impossible to say, if England had looked better in 2020, it would have been given more weight, frankly England haven’t looked the same post WC.
 

Tooting Carmen

Academy Player
Joined
Sep 18, 2018
Messages
384
Reaction score
37
Impossible to say, if England had looked better in 2020, it would have been given more weight, frankly England haven’t looked the same post WC.

Apart from the 6N match against France, they won all their matches last year...
 

TRF_Olyy

English Arrogance
Staff member
TRF Legend
TRF Supporter
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
100,003,494
Reaction score
8,128
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

Sale

Apart from the 6N match against France, they won all their matches last year...
Aye but look how good we looked vs the All Blacks in the WC

Have we played even half as good as that since?
 

The Alpha Bro

Fat Boi
TRF Legend
TRF Supporter
Joined
Dec 3, 2010
Messages
13,842
Reaction score
4,072
Country Flag

Ireland

Club or Nation

Leinster

Apart from the 6N match against France, they won all their matches last year...
Europe was soft as last year, they lost the only game that they realistically could and nearly lost another to France A.

i don't think it's all doom and gloom like the thread would suggest but they need a few improvements, not on the scale of the two sides we need tomorrow but still.
 

AlRums

Academy Player
Joined
Jun 23, 2017
Messages
317
Reaction score
129
Country Flag

Scotland

Club or Nation

Scotland

England seem to have demonstrated in recent years a complete inability to adapt

They play a gameplan but doesn't seem to be able to change to conditions or offer change to counteract opposition gameplans

For example in 2019 they seemed unable to cope with the Scots changing in the Calcutta Cup here Scotland successfully changed their plan to more attacking rugby and too the lead to hat ended up a a thrilling draw

Last year they struggled to adapt to a better gameplan from France

Today seem to demonstrate an complete inabiity to react and adapt to a gameplan against them that they didn't reckon on

I get the impression that they decide to play against certain gameplans they decide the opposition will play and can't adjust accordingly
 

TRF_Olyy

English Arrogance
Staff member
TRF Legend
TRF Supporter
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
100,003,494
Reaction score
8,128
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

Sale

We just can't play if we don't have dominance up front - parity or worse and we have no answers with Farrell at 10
 

ragerancher

International
TRF Legend
Joined
Sep 20, 2011
Messages
6,297
Reaction score
2,283
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

Bath

England seem to have demonstrated in recent years a complete inability to adapt

They play a gameplan but doesn't seem to be able to change to conditions or offer change to counteract opposition gameplans

For example in 2019 they seemed unable to cope with the Scots changing in the Calcutta Cup here Scotland successfully changed their plan to more attacking rugby and too the lead to hat ended up a a thrilling draw

Last year they struggled to adapt to a better gameplan from France

Today seem to demonstrate an complete inabiity to react and adapt to a gameplan against them that they didn't reckon on

I get the impression that they decide to play against certain gameplans they decide the opposition will play and can't adjust accordingly
Don't need to adjust your gameplan if you don't have a gameplan

Think About It Reaction GIF by Identity
 

Old Hooker

First XV
TRF Legend
Joined
Sep 18, 2015
Messages
3,845
Reaction score
1,430
Country Flag

England

Congratulations to the Scots. All the same, to what extent might the lack of game time for the Sarries players have been a factor?

It’s got to be a bit of a risk when a third of your team haven’t had any meaningful rugby in a couple of months (and it would no doubt have been 6 if Mako was fit). Especially allied to the unavailability of Launch and Underhill etc.

George and, despite a storming start, Itoje were a bit below par. Daly was Daly while Faz and Binny carried on their poor Autumn form. All would have benefited from being battle hardened, but without a change of tactics I doubt it would have made a difference to the result.

This was uncharted territory for Jones, but it was a clear risk starting all of them. The instinctive, decisive ‘genius’ who got so many plaudits for his early hookings of Harrison and Burrell now seems more in thrall to reputation.

He didn’t experiment in the Autumn when he should have and he’d have got a free pass from most of us if he’d decided not to play some of the established Sarries today.

Aye but look how good we looked vs the All Blacks in the WC

Have we played even half as good as that since?
No.

And that’s what leads me to think all may not be well in camp. Changes of back room staff won’t have helped, but the players haven’t all become rubbish overnight. Something’s changed.
 

Tooting Carmen

Academy Player
Joined
Sep 18, 2018
Messages
384
Reaction score
37
Sorry, but all this solipsistic crying by England fans is risible. A narrow home loss to an improving Scotland team doesn't make you a bad team all of a sudden, even taking into account it happened for the first time since 1983.
 

Oliver Madden

Academy Player
Joined
Jun 20, 2018
Messages
222
Reaction score
74
With losing this game my enthusiasm for the 6 Nations from an England perspective has completely gone. Unless this result forces Eddie to radically change the personnel and the style of play I can see us going nowhere in the next 4 games and just fulfilling the fixtures like the ANC. I don’t think we can win the tournament from this position. We could see a repeat of the 2018 debacle when we came 5th. If we continue playing like this in the rest of the 6 nations at the end of the tournament Eddie should go.
 

Old Hooker

First XV
TRF Legend
Joined
Sep 18, 2015
Messages
3,845
Reaction score
1,430
Country Flag

England

Sorry, but all this solipsistic crying by England fans is risible. A narrow home loss to an improving Scotland team doesn't make you a bad team all of a sudden, even taking into account it happened for the first time since 1983.
That’s missing the point. We wouldn’t be whining (so much) if it was just a bad day at the office. It wasn’t, it’s just the latest in a series of v poor performances. The difference this time is that Sco were tougher opposition, it was a game that mattered and we didn’t get away with it on the scoreboard.
 

TRF_Olyy

English Arrogance
Staff member
TRF Legend
TRF Supporter
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
100,003,494
Reaction score
8,128
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

Sale

all of a sudden
Not really all of a sudden, though, is it?
It's been a slow decline for the last 16 months - our last complete performance was vs New Zealand, since then we've been scrapping out wins and playing pretty torrid rugby

Plenty of excuses were made in the autumn, but no lessons seem to have been learned after scraping an extra time win by the skin of our teeth against France's reserves side (who we were heavy favourites against)


It'd be different if we were playing ugly but learning from it, adjusting the gameplan and make up of the squad etc. but we're not, we just go out there and do the same thing every game - and if it's not working? Just keep doing it, because we don't know how to do anything else
 

TBeastT

First XV
TRF Legend
Joined
Apr 12, 2015
Messages
4,867
Reaction score
1,645
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

Exeter

Sorry, but all this solipsistic crying by England fans is risible. A narrow home loss to an improving Scotland team doesn't make you a bad team all of a sudden, even taking into account it happened for the first time since 1983.
I mean, I kind of agree that there would’ve been no (or at least significantly less) shame in losing to that Scotland side if we’d actually played well, but it’s the the fact that we objectively played appalling rugby that means we’re currently a pretty awful side.

Also, I think it’s worth noting that while a lot of people are calling for Lawes to replace Hill, Hill actually topped the tackle charts (by a reasonably long way) with 24, only missed 1 and was the only forward to win a turnover. He wasn’t perfect by any means but I find it odd that people seem to be suggesting that replacing him would make any noticeable improvement. He definitely was not part (or at least a major part) of the issues today.
 

noah_jo

First XV
TRF Legend
Joined
Dec 22, 2014
Messages
1,911
Reaction score
526
Country Flag

UK

Club or Nation

Harlequins

One thing that is worth remembering - this is something that tends to happen under Jones a bit into the world cup cycle. Obviously not ideal, but I trust it will come good for 2023
 
Top