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[2021 Six Nations] England vs Scotland (06/02/21)

Which Tyler

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So from the dissection, what should be the team for next week?
Genge, George, Stuart
Itoje (c), Hill
Willis, Curry, Wilson (8)

Youngs, Ford
Lawrence, Slade
May, Watson, Daly (15)

Obano, LCD, Williams, Lawes, Earl
Robson, Farrel, Malins

Billy and Owen are in ruts with their form, and didn't deserve to be there in the first place - everyone else has actually earned their place in the team, and deserve the chance to turn it around. This wouldn't be the team I'd pick if I were starting from scratch, but from where we are.

Were I starting from scratch, George would have been on the bench - due to rust.
Hill would have been on the bench - because I'm just not a fan, even though I acknowledge that he's earned the right to be tested.
I'd have started with the 6-13 named above - there are no valid alternatives to Youngs as starter, because no-one's been given the chance to be tested and kept / discarded. I'm Ford > Farrell anyway, but as a preference, not an absolute; after November, and yesterday, it's become an absolute.
I'd have started with Malins at FB - Daly's just never looked right back there, whilst Malins has shown what we want to see from Daly, but in practice, not theory.

Billy and Owen desperately need to learn that they're not undroppable; Daly is headed in that direction as well, though I wouldn't be pulling the plug just yet.
As for captaincy, Itoje has seemed like the captain in waiting since almost his first cap; whilst Farrell has never had the right temprament for the job - not to mention that FHs and kickers generally make terrible captains.

The most important change though, is that the players need to be authorised to actually go off-script when necessary.
 
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Old Hooker

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Genge, George, Stuart
Itoje, Hill
Willis, Curry, Wilson (8)

Youngs, Ford
Lawrence, Slade
May, Watson, Daly (15)

Obano, LCD, Williams, Lawes, Earl
Robson, Farrel, Malins

Billy and Owen are in ruts with their form, and didn't deserve to be there in the first place - everyone else has actually earned their place in the team, and deserve the chance to turn it around. This wouldn't be the team I'd pick if I were starting from scratch, but from where we are. I'd have started all the Saracens players off the bench yesterday, on the principal of rustiness, Daly has never convinced me as a FB, whilst Malins has shown what we want from Daly, but in practice, not just theory. Otherwise the halfback debates have been done to death, - there are no valid alternatives to Youngs as starter, because no-one's been given the chance to be tested and kept / discarded. I'm Ford > Farrell anyway, but as a preference, not an absolute; after November, and yesterday, it's become an absolute, if only to teach Farrel that he's not undroppable (a lesson Billy also desperately needs - Daly is heading in that direction too, but I'm not there yet).
The main change though, is that the players need to be authorised to actually go off-script when necessary.
Definitely agree the off piste.

Ref selection. This is Italy - and they’re crapper than we are. If the likes of Randall, Odugwu etc don’t get to play any part in this then they’re in for a long dispiriting bubble holding tackle bags. I’d stand down Youngs, Faz, Billy and possibly Itoje altogether and let them hold the tackle bags for a change.

I’ve got a long diatribe brewing in my head but for now.....Watson was the outstanding back rower on the pitch yesterday and has been excellent for a long time. Gatland was there yesterday and that won’t have escaped his notice. The one player who I think is crucial to our pack above all others is Underhill for the way he dominates collisions.

I was astonished by Hill’s tackle stats. Fair play to him if those are right, but I barely noticed him. Bit Robshaw like in plenty of work but probably very few entries in the dominant tackles column. He doesn’t scream international class to me.
 

Reiser99

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That explains a lot.
I think some people have been a bit critical of Scotland, however they certainly could have played better. I'd say Scotland were about a 5/6 out of 10 and certainly have room for improvement. England though were 1/2 out of 10. I think Scotland will not care how they won, just that they won. However, if they reflect honestly once the adrenaline has worn off I'm sure they'll admit they could have won by more and played better.
 

Which Tyler

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Definitely agree the off piste.

Ref selection. This is Italy - and they’re crapper than we are. If the likes of Randall, Odugwu etc don’t get to play any part in this then they’re in for a long dispiriting bubble holding tackle bags. I’d stand down Youngs, Faz, Billy and possibly Itoje altogether and let them hold the tackle bags for a change.

I’ve got a long diatribe brewing in my head but for now.....Watson was the outstanding back rower on the pitch yesterday and has been excellent for a long time. Gatland was there yesterday and that won’t have escaped his notice. The one player who I think is crucial to our pack above all others is Underhill for the way he dominates collisions.

I was astonished by Hill’s tackle stats. Fair play to him if those are right, but I barely noticed him. Bit Robshaw like in plenty of work but probably very few entries in the dominant tackles column. He doesn’t scream international class to me.
Yes, Italy are crapper than we are - but their performance yesterday was (unpopular opinion) less crap than ours - at least they threatened on occasion (though they were also more leaky, so...).
If yesterday had gone differently, I'd absolutely be calling for experiment for experiment's sake; but after a performance like that, I'd prefer to drop the most culpable (espeically as it co-incides with a period of poor form which already put their places in doubt), and let the rest look to prove that it was a one-off.
 

big ginger 8

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As I said previously Scotland were hampered by their halfbacks but there was a lot of things they did quite well. Their set piece was really good. I don't have any stats in front of me but from memory they gave away a penalty in an early scrum but had dominance after that and in terrible weather had an excellent lineout. Certainly I can't remember them losing a lineout while Turner was on (even if there were two scrappy ones) and they turned over at least two English lineouts in dangerous positions. They mostly kept the ball well and looked dangerous in broken play. They were also massively physical in defence but it remains to be seen if they can keep that up in a game with different possession stats. Their phase play definitely holds them back. England are very comfortable defending long phases (just see any recent game against Ireland) but it is Scotland's biggest work on and probably what's holding them back the most along with possible discipline issues when they don't have the ball.
 

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So from the dissection, what should be the team for next week?
Thing is, I expect the team to be very similar and we will be much better.
The Sarries players will all be better for some game time with George and Itoje being worthy of their places (based on whatever form they’ve had in the last year).

What I find depressing is that you can put money on Lawrence losing his place with Ford coming in and Farrell going to 12, which is the wrong decision imho.
And no doubt Wilson will lose out to Lawes with BV retaining his place despite being average for a long time now.

Personally I think Daly needs to drop out as well but it won’t happen.

So:
No change except Ford for Lawrence and Lawes for Wilson.
 

ragerancher

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On the plus side, I have another "greatest England humiliations with Farrell at 10" to add to the list.
 

ncurd

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One of the odd things is you have the old adage 'no 10 looks good behind a beaten pack' the problem is yesterday I didn't feel our pack was beaten. Sure they were far from great but if our 9 and 10 stopped killing the platform they had we.might have look not terrible.

The issue as everyone has said is 8,9,10 and 15 but we'll drop our 6 and 12 instead. And that's possibly the most monumentally frustrating thing about the whole affair.
 

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Genge, George, Stuart
Itoje (c), Hill
Willis, Curry, Wilson (8)

Youngs, Ford
Lawrence, Slade
May, Watson, Daly (15)

Obano, LCD, Williams, Lawes, Earl
Robson, Farrel, Malins
I kinda want to see Odogwu on the bench vs Italy but not a must.

LCD earned a start 100%, George can show hes up to the standard from the bench.

Malins should get a start to get some minties into him you know

Please not youngs, robson and malins lets speed things up.

That back row sounds good, not even fussed about Billy or Wilson, Curry Willis together sounds decent.
 

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"You've just got to look at the possession stats, I think they had 75 per cent possession in the first half, penalty count was 10 to one. I think you might understand why the centres don't touch the ball. They are the basics of rugby." - Says Eddie.

So why take off the centre that's had one touch of the ball, and move one of the reasons he's had one touch of the ball into his place?
 

living sacrifice

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I get the impression Eddie won’t actually learn from his mistakes again and will continue this kicking mess with his poor 8,9 & 10 as we really don’t have any options in the squad with what he’s created.
 

TW27BA

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I get the impression Eddie won’t actually learn from his mistakes again and will continue this kicking mess with his poor 8,9 & 10 as we really don’t have any options in the squad with what he’s created.
Sadly I think you are right.
I will be surprised if Farrell isn't named at 10 again on Saturday along with Billy at 8. Both are crying out to be rested going on latest performances.
I get the impression EJ is so headstrong he will persist with his tactics and favourite players come what may.

Even a win over Italy won't paper over the huge cracks in this current team.
 

TRF_Olyy

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"I've got to give them another game to get their confidence back"

**unconvincing win over Italy**

"Well they won the last game, why would I change a winning formula?"
 

Scotty

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"I've got to give them another game to get their confidence back"

**unconvincing win over Italy**

"Well they won the last game, why would I change a winning formula?"
God i hope your wrong but i can see that happening...let George Faz Billy and Daly come off the bench at 60min vs italy and prove their form. Give the young lads a shot. And the ones that dont often get a start.

What happens if we lose Faz and billy before a world cup, will we just say well we never had a chance to test playing without them.....
 

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Our discipline is shocking but Brace isn't even trying to hide his disdain for the English, when he's talking to players etc
Honestly shouldn't put WRU refs in games with England they're always gopping, Owens was the same
stupid reaction that reminds me when we French did not accept the decisions of an English referee because we always thought he favored the British teams
 

TRF_Olyy

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