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[2021 Six Nations] Wales vs England (27/02/21)

TRF_Olyy

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I was listening to the Rugby Pod today and Goode was saying that there was a forward pass in the build up to Watsons try so it kind of evens itself out anyway.
Do you know who by/when?
I just watched the try again on the highlights (so it might have been further back than the highlights showed) and there were no forward passes in it
 

Welsh Exile

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Do you know who by/when?
I just watched the try again on the highlights (so it might have been further back than the highlights showed) and there were no forward passes in it

No he didn’t say. I like Goode and think he’s pretty fair but like us all can chat a bit of **** sometime. I’d have to listen to it back but he said about 3 yards forward and I thought no way would I have missed that so think he was just being edgy. **** knows.
 

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Do you know who by/when?
I just watched the try again on the highlights (so it might have been further back than the highlights showed) and there were no forward passes in it
I think they're possibly claiming the Jamie George pass was forward, but it looked flat as my girlfriends backside to me
 

TRF_Olyy

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No he didn’t say. I like Goode and think he’s pretty fair but like us all can chat a bit of **** sometime. I’d have to listen to it back but he said about 3 yards forward and I thought no way would I have missed that so think he was just being edgy. **** knows.
I had a quick look on social media and people seem to be saying it's the pass to Sinckler that was forward,

I can't see that as forward at all

try starts at 2:49 on the video, if it didn't copy at the right time

Blatant tackle off the ball missed on Curry as well, ha
 

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Is this one of those forward passes that is actually just momentum though? A lot of pro's really struggle with this concept. Honestly can't be bothered to check. I didn't notice anything at the time, whereas LRZ's knock on was pretty obvious!
There isn't a particularly good angle to view it, but it's one of those where Watson definitely catches the ball further forward than George makes the pass. However, when Watson takes the pass, Geroge is still in front of the ball?
 

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SO just upon looking at that extended highlights video, next up pops one of England v australia, first clip is of Billy Vunipola looking like an actual athlete. You can see why he was more effective then for sure
 

Welsh Exile

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I had a quick look on social media and people seem to be saying it's the pass to Sinckler that was forward,

I can't see that as forward at all

try starts at 2:49 on the video, if it didn't copy at the right time

Blatant tackle off the ball missed on Curry as well, ha

If that’s the one he’s talking about then yeah, not for me. In fact I can’t see anything forward at all including the last pass to Watson. They don’t even look flat, clearly backwards but then it’s always hard to be 100% when the angle is like that but you can still tell when it’s clearly forward or not.
 

MattGaff

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I had a quick look on social media and people seem to be saying it's the pass to Sinckler that was forward,

I can't see that as forward at all

try starts at 2:49 on the video, if it didn't copy at the right time

Blatant tackle off the ball missed on Curry as well, ha

OK - just to clarify what i think so people are saying.... I slowed the video down to slowest speed and if you look at Jamie George position relative to the grass lines as the ball leaves his hand, and then where Watson is when he catches it, I think that's why, BUT Touch Judge is right in line with this so if it was forward, he would have called it... unless he wanted to make up for referee for 1st 2 tries from Wales? Who cares at this point really?

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BrokenWing

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In the second photo, George is still ahead of Watson as he's catching the pass, so I'd say that's not forward out of the hands as they say and just forward momentum.
 

ragerancher

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In the second photo, George is still ahead of Watson as he's catching the pass, so I'd say that's not forward out of the hands as they say and just forward momentum.
This. It's virtually impossible for a passer to be ahead of the catcher they passed to once the ball is caught if the pass was forwards (assuming they are running in the same direction).
 

ncurd

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Ah the old conservation of momentum chestnut....never fails to amuse me people still don't understand it and/or deliberately forget it to deflect attention fro other things.
 

BrokenWing

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I was surprised in the Italy game that Ioane's try wasn't looked at a bit more closely as that did look forwards. But then it's hard to tell from the standard camera angles.
 

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Past is past and the score will not change... but when I hear you say that LRZ catch was a blatant, so obvious knock on every day of the week and that the pass form George to Watson was just forward momentum and not "forward out of hands", I cannot hide an amused but benevolent smile.
That's the joy of this sport, you can discuss hours on hand on what are very trivial topics at the end of the day
 

BrokenWing

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See, the thing there is LRZ didn't catch it.

May be worth being factually correct.

Oh, and they’re two entirely different laws, covered by entirely different criteria.
 
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Wichita

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See, the thing there is LRZ didn't catch it.

May be worth being factually correct.
You are right, the ball was a few inches behind him, so he could not catch it. But George's pass was well in front of Watson, so no issue there for Watson to catch it.
Come on guys, just joking. Let us leave it at that if you don't mind.
 

TommiG88

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I’m not a particular fan of Goode. Always seems bitter.

But calling that a forward pass, you could go through a match and pick out a dozen or more of those that weren’t given. Maybe if I cared so much, I’ll watch back the game and pick out every welsh “forward” pass and say swings in roundabouts.

Due to the 2 woeful decisions, someone has to go through and pick out everything with a tooth comb with England’s play to justify everything.
 

ncurd

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You are right, the ball was a few inches behind him, so he could not catch it
Okay, on the previous page I explain the law of a knock on with definitions copy and pasted from world rugby.

If you want to have a discussion about something specifically how I'm wrong fine but otherwise you're being quite pointless.
 

ragerancher

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Past is past and the score will not change... but when I hear you say that LRZ catch was a blatant, so obvious knock on every day of the week and that the pass form George to Watson was just forward momentum and not "forward out of hands", I cannot hide an amused but benevolent smile.
That's the joy of this sport, you can discuss hours on hand on what are very trivial topics at the end of the day
You know you don't get to just imply "ah you said this decision was wrong but this other wasn't wrong, therefore hypocrite"

As the law stands, what LRZ did wasn't a kick and he had knocked it forward prior to that so it is a knock on my law
Current interpretation of forward pass is whether it travels forward relative to the passer, not the pitch. As a general rule of thumb, if the passer is not impeded and continues at roughly the same pace, if the pass was level or behind then he will still be in front of the ball when it is caught. George is still in front of Watson when Watson catches the ball which means he must have passed it backwards.

The backwards motion relative to the player was illustrated in a demonstration video where a player literally threw the ball backwards over his head but it still travelled forwards relative to the pitch. As nobody could possibly claim the pass itself was forward, that is why going forward relative to the pitch is not used. Video below showing why it would be ridiculous to base it relative to the pitch and not the player.

 

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