[2022 Six Nations] Ireland vs Wales (05/02/22)

[munstermuffin]

Tbf re Hume, he had 20 minutes or so and dint really impose himself on the game all that much, though that was also with Sexton off. If Henshaw came into 23 I dont think you'd be too disappointed
Hansen played well, and In hindsight Im unsure Balacoune has that distribution side of his game (Ulster dont really bring their wingers into midfield to take up that role), but it seems he's competing more with Conway. Him and Lowry looked sharp on Friday so maybe get a look in v Italy
Oddly, i think the only member of the starting backline who looked below his usual standards was Keenan, but he's been so solid and reliable, and did pick up his game after a slightly rocky opening 20
In second row, I think Beirne has been so standout that Ryan and Henderson are competing for the same jersey, realistically having any of those 3 starting, and one benching is a dream scenario

Finally, was watching with my dad, and despite the wind and rain at the aviva, he didnt even think about a slippery ball until the 60th minute because the irish handling was so good and slick (it obviously slowed a little due to rain, it would have to, but even still) and i think this shows the intent to play "their way" regardless of the situation, backing their skills and it really highlighted for me just how far those skills have come

100% agree if Henshaw came in at 23 I wouldn't be spitting fire. As I said I'm only guessing with an Irish Management POV.

Agree on 2nd row comments but as you say it is brilliant to have all 3 available as 3 excellent but different options.

 

[Groundhog]

I am absolutely against Beirne dropping from the starting lineup. Bit of a cockup for the Welsh try doesn't smear what was an unbelievable performance. I think the MOTM was Aki followed by Beirne/VdF (VdF's insane stats probably give him the edge) Saturday. Don't think he has a bad point in his game right now and would agree that the other lads should be left compete for the other SR jersey.

I would bring Henshaw in at 23, because he's too good not to have in. Other than that I don't think I'd have any changes. Wouldn't be mad if Coombes made the bench, as we may need a close quarters carrier late in the game, but also think dropping O'Mahony would be harsh.

Carbery for me was a bit disappointing when he came on, but he stays put by virtue of no other options. Don't think JGP had one of his better games and I think Murray was decent when he came on, did some good sniping, but JGP has credit in the bank right now and even if he wasn't at his best, his tempo was too important to how we were playing to forego.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I am absolutely against Beirne dropping from the starting lineup. Bit of a cockup for the Welsh try doesn't smear what was an unbelievable performance. I think the MOTM was Aki followed by Beirne/VdF (VdF's insane stats probably give him the edge) Saturday. Don't think he has a bad point in his game right now and would agree that the other lads should be left compete for the other SR jersey.

I would bring Henshaw in at 23, because he's too good not to have in. Other than that I don't think I'd have any changes. Wouldn't be mad if Coombes made the bench, as we may need a close quarters carrier late in the game, but also think dropping O'Mahony would be harsh.

Carbery for me was a bit disappointing when he came on, but he stays put by virtue of no other options. Don't think JGP had one of his better games and I think Murray was decent when he came on, did some good sniping, but JGP has credit in the bank right now and even if he wasn't at his best, his tempo was too important to how we were playing to forego.

Apologise to Ringer right now.

 

[Groundhog]

Earls and Herring ruled out of next week's game, no other injuries. Pretty good outcome from a squad pov!

 

[MikeTheNative]

Re. backrow, I think Tain Basham played very well, arguably outplaying his opposite number which was impressive given what he was playing behind/alongside.

Jenkins still looks undercooked and a little unfit to me. His comeback v SA in the AI's was crazy impressive, but since that he's been off the pace for Cardiff, and was again yesterday.

Wainwright simply lacks physicality. I thought there were positive signs that his transition to 8 was going to be successful utilising his pace and footwork in the carry. But sometimes you just need some old fashioned power, and yesterday was probably one of those days. Consistency isn't one of Wainwrights strengths either.

Maybe a backrow of Moriarty, Basham, Ratti for the next game?

I like Wainwright but I agree, without any other big slow ball tight carries Wainwright at 8 doesn't look like it fits. I have the suspicion that Ratti might be given a go this week, maybe from the bench with Moriarty starting and no Jenkins at all in the 23.
I know he's struggled with injures but SLH would go to help balance the Wales back row a bit. Saying that though there's issues around the entire pack. Beard is a massive lump so needs to start carrying like one, the best scrummaging props aren't great carriers either. Wyn Jones isn't bad but Francis never carriers which tells you something. Modern day props need to be able to carry and get around the field.

 

[munstermuffin]

I am absolutely against Beirne dropping from the starting lineup. Bit of a cockup for the Welsh try doesn't smear what was an unbelievable performance. I think the MOTM was Aki followed by Beirne/VdF (VdF's insane stats probably give him the edge) Saturday. Don't think he has a bad point in his game right now and would agree that the other lads should be left compete for the other SR jersey.

I would bring Henshaw in at 23, because he's too good not to have in. Other than that I don't think I'd have any changes. Wouldn't be mad if Coombes made the bench, as we may need a close quarters carrier late in the game, but also think dropping O'Mahony would be harsh.

Carbery for me was a bit disappointing when he came on, but he stays put by virtue of no other options. Don't think JGP had one of his better games and I think Murray was decent when he came on, did some good sniping, but JGP has credit in the bank right now and even if he wasn't at his best, his tempo was too important to how we were playing to forego.

On this.

1st of all JGP has to play IF we are keeping same style. Conor is better for closing out.
More on 22 Jersey. Think it is impossible to be harsh on Joey as game was always going to fizz out with all subs etc. But is Carty the best alternative at the moment. Like in my eyes Carty and Jack Crowley are the 2 best alternatives to match style Ireland wish to go to. Not saying Crowley should be in squad but based on styles and ability.

 

[Welsh Exile]

I like Wainwright but I agree, without any other big slow ball tight carries Wainwright at 8 doesn't look like it fits. I have the suspicion that Ratti might be given a go this week, maybe from the bench with Moriarty starting and no Jenkins at all in the 23.
I know he's struggled with injures but SLH would go to help balance the Wales back row a bit. Saying that though there's issues around the entire pack. Beard is a massive lump so needs to start carrying like one, the best scrummaging props aren't great carriers either. Wyn Jones isn't bad but Francis never carriers which tells you something. Modern day props need to be able to carry and get around the field.

While ball carrying physicality is an issue especially in the front 5 it's the skill set that is a lot more worrying imo

I thought we had developed Beard a bit in this regard but there was an incident in the game when he took the ball so flat which resulted in him and ball getting taken. If he had just stood off a yard deeper and timed his run better and did an out the back pass there was a overlap we could've utilised. But a lot of our front 5 are just conditioned to hit up and make yards it's not 2012 anymore. You need front 5 forwards with ball skills like Beirne and Furlong and look at the skill set of someone like Porter. Our handling ability and poor decision making is costing us more and actually more worrying from my point of view. We need to move on from the traditional 2nd row skill set (another reason why AWJ is so underrated as he does the kind of stuff I'm talking about for fun, I.e can stand in the back line and link up play) but you look at Beard and Rowlands and they had good enough games but just standard old lock stuff. This is a big problem I have with the coaching, or lack of, 3 years into Pivacs reign.

How much more did their front 5 show great ball skills and hands compared to ours? I wouldn't want to look and have no interest in watching the game again.

 

[MikeTheNative]

While ball carrying physicality is an issue especially in the front 5 it's the skill set that is a lot more worrying imo

I thought we had developed Beard a bit in this regard but there was an incident in the game when he took the ball so flat which resulted in him and ball getting taken. If he had just stood off a yard deeper and timed his run better and did an out the back pass there was a overlap we could've utilised. But a lot of our front 5 are just conditioned to hit up and make yards it's not 2012 anymore. You need front 5 forwards with ball skills like Beirne and Furlong and look at the skill set of someone like Porter. Our handling ability and poor decision making is costing us more and actually more worrying from my point of view. We need to move on from the traditional 2nd row skill set (another reason why AWJ is so underrated as he does the kind of stuff I'm talking about for fun, I.e can stand in the back line and link up play) but you look at Beard and Rowlands and they had good enough games but just standard old lock stuff. This is a big problem I have with the coaching, or lack of, 3 years into Pivacs reign.

How much more did their front 5 show great ball skills and hands compared to ours? I wouldn't want to look and have no interest in watching the game again.

I would say a number of the Welsh pack do have those skills. Beard and Wyn Jones I have seen them offer those kind of skills in both test and regional level before. Beard was used a bit like this last 6 nations not sure why he's not been this time?
6 nations gave Privac some credit back for me, they didn't play amazing but there seemed to be a consistent improvement as the tournament went on. However since the summer they just seemed to play worse.
Now we a year and a half to a world cup and Wales are just confusing. Your not sure what they are trying to do in attack or defence and making big selection decisions that just don't work (Adams at 13)

 

[Welsh Exile]

I would say a number of the Welsh pack do have those skills. Beard and Wyn Jones I have seen them offer those kind of skills in both test and regional level before. Beard was used a bit like this last 6 nations not sure why he's not been this time?
6 nations gave Privac some credit back for me, they didn't play amazing but there seemed to be a consistent improvement as the tournament went on. However since the summer they just seemed to play worse.
Now we a year and a half to a world cup and Wales are just confusing. Your not sure what they are trying to do in attack or defence and making big selection decisions that just don't work (Adams at 13)

I think the Scotland game is huge. You'd expect to see a big response from the players and are still all buying into to Pivac and co. Another performance like that and I'll seriously question whether they're still really playing for him.

I'd be on the phone to Robertson as of now if I was in charge but then I'm a **** and not a very knowledgeable one at that.

 

[MikeTheNative]

With the tournament win last year I can only see a whitewash being his downfall. However saying that though, the only thing consistent thing about Wales during his tenure is how poor they have been. We need to see serious improvement in the last 4 games.

 

[Welsh Exile]

With the tournament win last year I can only see a whitewash being his downfall. However saying that though, the only thing consistent thing about Wales during his tenure is how poor they have been. We need to see serious improvement in the last 4 games.

Agreed. I think we'd have to lose to Italy (possible) for him to get the chop. Perhaps 4 drubbings might do it but not sure.

For me it comes down to the fact that imho Robertson is a special coach and if we can get him in then great. If he told us to F off I'd be inclined to give Pivac the summer tour of SA (and hopefully a squad with less injuries) to prove he should still be leading this group.

 

[Genghis]

Firstly, well played Ireland - that was a fantastic performance and I suspect they would have beaten the All Blacks again last Saturday.

With Wales, I think we are in the inevitable transition stage when really good teams start to decline because of a lack of succession planning.

The Gatland years were a bit of a golden age for Welsh rugby (especially when you consider our size and the chronic state of our regional game). Warrenball wasn't always easy on the eye, but it was damn effective and I would rather have ground out a boring win than be crushed by Ireland while trying to play attacking rugby.

All coaches know they will leave at some point, so what is their motivation to develop future talent at the expense of todays results and many of Gatland's fantastic players are getting behind their sell by date but there is little coming through behind them. Sorting out the Regions is key.

 

[westernforce]

On this.

1st of all JGP has to play IF we are keeping same style. Conor is better for closing out.
More on 22 Jersey. Think it is impossible to be harsh on Joey as game was always going to fizz out with all subs etc. But is Carty the best alternative at the moment. Like in my eyes Carty and Jack Crowley are the 2 best alternatives to match style Ireland wish to go to. Not saying Crowley should be in squad but based on styles and ability.

Carty really will only get a look in if carberry/sexton picks up an injury imo. Which is a possibility. Would like to see carty start against italy or come off the bench. Rest Sexton for that game

 

[big ginger 8]

How Ireland cleverly turned Wales' box-kick plan against them https://the42.ie/5676783

 

[munstermuffin]

Carty really will only get a look in if carberry/sexton picks up an injury imo. Which is a possibility. Would like to see carty start against italy or come off the bench. Rest Sexton for that game

Even at that it wouldn't shock me to see Ross or Harry drafted in and leapfrog Carty in case of injury. Italy is last game and points difference etc may be a thing so no token caps will be handed in that game.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Even at that it wouldn't shock me to see Ross or Harry drafted in and leapfrog Carty in case of injury. Italy is last game and points difference etc may be a thing so no token caps will be handed in that game.

Ross is never playing for Ireland again, I'm very confident of that.

The Harry fast track was the right call given Carty's ceiling falling somewhere between below the level of international rugby and barely above the level of the URC. Unfortunately injuries haven't afforded HB a run of games and he's dropped into the chasing pack with Munster's two lads. I think we need one of the three (my preference Crowley) to have a big 18 months and force their way in.

Italy in week there's is going to disappoint a lot of people, particularly if we lose on Saturday, but it's not the time to rest guys and have a four week break between games.

 

[Groundhog]

Really enjoyed Squidge Rugby's video on the match. Not because of the content, but because I'm in it.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Really enjoyed Squidge Rugby's video

 

[Groundhog]

If it helps I only watched for like 40 seconds, saw myself and closed the video. The tiny bit I saw he was complaining about Irish fans calling him anti Irish, which I approve of.

 

[munstermuffin]

Ross is never playing for Ireland again, I'm very confident of that.

The Harry fast track was the right call given Carty's ceiling falling somewhere between below the level of international rugby and barely above the level of the URC. Unfortunately injuries haven't afforded HB a run of games and he's dropped into the chasing pack with Munster's two lads. I think we need one of the three (my preference Crowley) to have a big 18 months and force their way in.

Italy in week there's is going to disappoint a lot of people, particularly if we lose on Saturday, but it's not the time to rest guys and have a four week break between games.

But the point remains. Won't be surprised if there is an injury that another comes in and leapfrogs Carty in to #22.

Against Italy - If for some crazy reason Sexton doesn't start then it is Joey who will get nod and Sexton will be on bench but as noted regardless. Ireland will either be going for a slam or possibly championship on that day so will be no chance of rotation as said.