[2022 Six Nations] Italy vs England (13/02/22)

[Bada-Bing!]

Always weird how NZ are never rebuilding

To be fair they have been since the last World Cup, and even before but they do so incrementally. Even they got soundly beaten by Ireland and France last year.

 

[LIONSxv]

To be fair they have been since the last World Cup, and even before but they do so incrementally. Even they got soundly beaten by Ireland and France last year.

They are going through a definite rebuilding stage. Remind me a bit of where England are at. Loads of good young players but don't know there best combinations

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

To be fair they have been since the last World Cup, and even before but they do so incrementally. Even they got soundly beaten by Ireland and France last year.

When NZ rebuild, they are still a team you need to put in a good performance to beat, they never really drop down to being poor. We are "rebuilding" and there is no apparent direction and teams know they can turn up, not put in a particularly good game and still beat us.

We talk about being world beaters, we need to be a team that others worry about even when we shuffle things about. We aren't in that situation now and haven't been for a while.

 

[ncurd]

If its the year before the world cup you should be staking a claim as bloody tough to beat with a pretty clear game structure and side. We are nowhere near that currently.

Sadly out route through the world cup looks pretty easy until the semi-finals we'd have to be really really poor in the group stages to not win our group. Then its likely Australia in the QF's unless Wales makes a pigs ear of it. Then we'll go out to either NZ or France.

 

[LIONSxv]

When NZ rebuild, they are still a team you need to put in a good performance to beat, they never really drop down to being poor. We are "rebuilding" and there is no apparent direction and teams know they can turn up, not put in a particularly good game and still beat us.

We talk about being world beaters, we need to be a team that others worry about even when we shuffle things about. We aren't in that situation now and haven't been for a while.

They were poor Vs Ireland and particularly poor Vs France. Possibly their worst performance of the last 20 years. They looked soft and got beat up both games.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Ah c'mon everyone. We just beat Ita by more points in Ita than World Champions Designate Fra did on their own patch. And nilled them. And blooded a new scrum half.


(Got to honest, this glass half full stuff isn't as easy as some of you make it look….).

 

[LIONSxv]

Ah c'mon everyone. We just beat Ita by more points in Ita than World Champions Designate Fra did on their own patch. And nilled them. And blooded a new scrum half.


(Got to honest, this glass half full stuff isn't as easy as some of you make it look….).

I think fans are down as the performances aren't cognisant with the amount of talent that Eddie has at his disposal. Very talented players have regressed and young players ripping it for club up look average.
I for one wouldn't be moaning if his best picks included robshaw and Haskell at 6 and 7. Instead he has a wealth of talent in certain areas but shoehorns his favourites or "Swiss army knife" type players in. Instead of playing players who are natural to that position.
Then we have to put up left field selections. Anyone with half a rugby brain can see for example that Isekwe is far superior to Charlie Ewels, apart from Eddie. Or that Ben Young's destroys any tempo or rythem that we build up before he puts a boot to it.

 

[MikeTheNative]

My hot take is that England played reasonably well. It was a decent 55 minutes which then fell a bit flat in the 2nd half, don't blame England too much as I think they realised even if they gave Italy the ball own their own try line they still wouldn't have scored. Despite how disappointing Italy were they currently aren't the Italy of yore which would ship 60 + points on a bad day. Garbisi and Varney are the future of Italy rugby and they will pick up form, however both have been poor so far.

 

[Jashay]

I'm actually reasonably optimistic about the England team going forwards, with the glaring exception of the centres.

Not worried about the front row. Now that Isiekwe and Hill have both shown recent promise I'm less worried about the locks (although still want Kruis back!). Back row we have loads of options, so if we can just pick an 8 and stick with them I think we'll be all right.

Both Randall and Quirke need time, but they both have the advantage of not being Youngs. We've got 3 good FH options. Finally have a secure fullback.

So that just leaves wing and centre. I think we're kind of banking on Watson, May and Nowell being fit and on form... so that's a concern! Bit worried we'll end up with Daly-Malins as wings.

And centre I've got no idea. Honestly feels like we're just praying for Manu's health.

So outside of the midfield I honestly get the impression that we've got enough talent and depth that it's a case of getting the experience with the systems bedded in. But centre is genuinely worrying at this point.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

They were poor Vs Ireland and particularly poor Vs France. Possibly their worst performance of the last 20 years. They looked soft and got beat up both games.

It's like everyone forgot NZ AI's and the calls to sack Foster, Eddie has a higher win percentage than he does

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Not worried about the front row.

I'm very worried about tighthead tbh,
Stuart showed he's not upto standard - realistically we've known it for a while, but he rarely starts so there's that "maybe he's just crap off the bench" question mark, and Sinckler, while good at what he does, is iffy in the scrum - some days great, other days penalty magnet

Loosehead and hooker are good, though

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Says something when Cole is a genuine candidate for TH now

 

[Scotty]

My hot take is that England played reasonably well. It was a decent 55 minutes which then fell a bit flat in the 2nd half, don't blame England too much as I think they realised even if they gave Italy the ball own their own try line they still wouldn't have scored. Despite how disappointing Italy were they currently aren't the Italy of yore which would ship 60 + points on a bad day. Garbisi and Varney are the future of Italy rugby and they will pick up form, however both have been poor so far.

Funny that isnt it that Youngs came on at 54 min

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Says something when Cole is a genuine candidate for TH now

I want to go into the RWC with Cole and Collier, so we can call them the CoCo Pops

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I want to go into the RWC with Cole and Collier, so we can call them the CoCo Pops

Coco Props surely?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Coco Props surely?

ffs

 

[MikeTheNative]

Funny that isnt it that Youngs came on at 54 min

While Youngs certainly didn't help the situation. I think it's a bit unfair to blame him solely, a lot of others player's standard's dropped in the same period.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I'm very worried about tighthead tbh,
Stuart showed he's not upto standard - realistically we've known it for a while, but he rarely starts so there's that "maybe he's just crap off the bench" question mark, and Sinckler, while good at what he does, is iffy in the scrum - some days great, other days penalty magnet

Loosehead and hooker are good, though

Agree on TH.

LH. I blow a bit hot and cold on this. We have one pretty solid option and one less solid but capable of the occasionally spectacular. Personally I'd start Marler and bring on Genge when it opens up a bit. I don't think good opposition would necessarily regard our LHs as weaknesses but I don't think they'd be fearful either.

Hooker. We have 2 good options both of whom are much of a muchness and streets ahead of domestic rivals. Perfectly good enough, but watching Sheehan at the weekend did give some pause for thought on what a hooker can bring.

The games v Ire and Fra will be real acid tests for our front row (and pack in general).

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

They were poor Vs Ireland and particularly poor Vs France. Possibly their worst performance of the last 20 years. They looked soft and got beat up both games.

Maybe but we are talking about very in form France and Ireland, both of whom were marked as potential 6N winners. When we are poor we are getting beaten up by almost every side bar Italy and an NZ poor year for defeats is often still on par with and average / good year for us.

 

[Reiser99]

Genge definitely isn't playing consistently well enough to make me not worried. He's too hot and cold to ne a solid starter.