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2024 Guinness Six Nations
[2023 Six Nations] England Squad
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<blockquote data-quote="Crash Hamster" data-source="post: 1116465" data-attributes="member: 84693"><p>I've been away and wasn't going to spend forever typing on a phone, but I thought I'd reply to this. 5m lineouts aren't generally contested by the defensive team, it's more often about maul defence, so any jumper will do. Bear in mind that London Irish have used van Rensburg as a jumper (a 12) Quins use Dombrandt. It's certainly not the preserve of a third lock playing at flanker.</p><p></p><p> I'm not entirely sure that this argument works quite as well as it first appears. Yes, the defensive side have to mark the third jumper, but they're marking him with their own third jumper, it doesn't make the lives of the two primary jumpers any easier, they're still opposed by the best two jumpers of the other team.</p><p></p><p>If you have a taller lifter and a shorter lifter, the lift is only going to go as high as the shorter lifter can lift; if the taller lifter is lifting alone, he's not going to be able to get as much upward momentum as a two man lift anyway.</p><p></p><p>Of course, picking a monster pack which is still extremely strong and tall and agile would be the ideal, but 8 players like that generally aren't available at the same time. When they have been, sides have dominated.</p><p></p><p>I too would pick Ted Hill; he's also a pretty useful lineout operator...</p><p></p><p>I'm not saying there's no utility to a third lineout jumper, I just think that any international-standard back row would surely contain a player who could be coached into being good enough to take the occasional ball. It's jumping and catching! Much harder to coach a good lineout operator to carry out the complex roles of a (say) blindside flanker.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This is exactly my argument, succinctly put. I felt Eddie Jones was so busy showing how clever he was by picking people to do things that weren't really their job, that he forgot to select the best player in each position. Positions exist for a reason.</p><p></p><p>I'll see if I can be bothered to analyse some lineouts for England during the 6N; a lot would depend on the coverage being good enough to see who's standing where...</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Crash Hamster, post: 1116465, member: 84693"] I've been away and wasn't going to spend forever typing on a phone, but I thought I'd reply to this. 5m lineouts aren't generally contested by the defensive team, it's more often about maul defence, so any jumper will do. Bear in mind that London Irish have used van Rensburg as a jumper (a 12) Quins use Dombrandt. It's certainly not the preserve of a third lock playing at flanker. I'm not entirely sure that this argument works quite as well as it first appears. Yes, the defensive side have to mark the third jumper, but they're marking him with their own third jumper, it doesn't make the lives of the two primary jumpers any easier, they're still opposed by the best two jumpers of the other team. If you have a taller lifter and a shorter lifter, the lift is only going to go as high as the shorter lifter can lift; if the taller lifter is lifting alone, he's not going to be able to get as much upward momentum as a two man lift anyway. Of course, picking a monster pack which is still extremely strong and tall and agile would be the ideal, but 8 players like that generally aren't available at the same time. When they have been, sides have dominated. I too would pick Ted Hill; he's also a pretty useful lineout operator... I'm not saying there's no utility to a third lineout jumper, I just think that any international-standard back row would surely contain a player who could be coached into being good enough to take the occasional ball. It's jumping and catching! Much harder to coach a good lineout operator to carry out the complex roles of a (say) blindside flanker. This is exactly my argument, succinctly put. I felt Eddie Jones was so busy showing how clever he was by picking people to do things that weren't really their job, that he forgot to select the best player in each position. Positions exist for a reason. I'll see if I can be bothered to analyse some lineouts for England during the 6N; a lot would depend on the coverage being good enough to see who's standing where... [/QUOTE]
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2024 Guinness Six Nations
[2023 Six Nations] England Squad
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