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[2023 Six Nations] England v France 11 March 2023. Kickoff 16:45

Dombrandt with a full run up on a kick receive and drops like liquid in contact, doesn't make a single mm of ground, and then gives away a penalty for holding on
Yeah horrendous. Whilst the French were litterally trying to run through us. Dombrandts missed his chance to make the shirt his own.
 
A backline of
JVP, Farrell, Watson, Lawrence, Losowski, Arundell, Malins
Would make a good pressure backline or play with speed and go
Mitchell, Smith, Watson, Lawrence, Marchant, Freeman, Arundell
 
About half the gap was probably attitude. The players might not like to hear it - but there it is.

No way should the 2nd try have been scored. 3 tackling one and the one makes about 3 yards through the tackle?
No way should the 2nd last try have been scored if Dombrandt had bothered sprinting as soon as he read the flight of the ball. 3/4 pace until Penaud had it in his hands isn't gonna cut it.

... and thats just 14 points off the top of my head. Never mind the scores of collisions easily won by the French which dictated the breakdowns thereafter.

People giving crap to Dombrandt but he looked quicker than Steward for that France try!
 
Yep, although there are big question marks on whether Borthwick has the experience and personality to do that. And Sinfield is still in short pants as far as union is concerned. This isn't hindsight, but what most of us said when they were appointed.

Last year we only lost by 12 points in Paris when Fra were chasing the GS. Many would say that our squad that day wasn't particularly inspiring either: Genge, George, Stuart, Itoje, Isiekwe, Lawes, Underhill, Simmonds, Youngs, Smith, Nowell, Slade, Marchant, Steward (on the wing with Genge returning kicks) Furbank. Bench of Dolly, Marler, Sinckler, Chessum, Dombrandt, Randall, Ford, Daly. Only 9 of those were on duty yesterday - some injuries, but some changing of horses.

Much as I enjoyed blaming Jones for everything, Borthwick can't hide behind that and the players we had yesterday shouldn't have been embarrassed like that. What bothers me is that there's been precious little evidence of a new coach bounce - forget results, but even in enthusiasm or energy - which suggests that Borthwick isn't really connecting with the players. If that's the case then he's going to struggle. When Jones came in he immediately got a better tune out of the hand he was dealt. Borthwick hasn't.
What type of team did Jones inherit compared to Borthwick? What position was English rugby in in 2016 compared to now? Jones is a quick fix guy but the longer he stayed the worse they got. I dont think its time to panic yet although a crap performance against Ireland wont help Borthwick.
 
People giving crap to Dombrandt but he looked quicker than Steward for that France try!
Ah I think people acknowledge Stewards one chink in his armour is his defensive pace. But...generally he's been absolutely fantastic for us.

Dombrandt...just so many questions unanswered. Fitness? Pace at this level...Power at this level ?
He's been given time but how long do we give him? Others will cone through...Mercer on his way back...Tom Wilis will continue to improve..and Chandler Cunningham South looks insane potential at 18+ stone and 6'4 ....and has the lot.
 
What type of team did Jones inherit compared to Borthwick? What position was English rugby in in 2016 compared to now? Jones is a quick fix guy but the longer he stayed the worse they got. I dont think its time to panic yet although a crap performance against Ireland wont help Borthwick.
The players will owe it to themselves to improve their own personal performances against Ireland. The England players aren't THAT bad despite the scoreline...and Ireland will be looking to smash and humiliate their hated neighbours on Paddy's weekend once again to get the grand slam.
 
Ah I think people acknowledge Stewards one chink in his armour is his defensive pace. But...generally he's been absolutely fantastic for us.
Agreed, he's missing a yard of pace but more than makes up for it with prediction and positioning. There's a reason he takes so many high balls and it's because he switches out with his wingers when he sees it coming ahead of time.

Prediction doesn't help much when the defensive line is being sliced into canapé sized pieces from every direction, however.
 
Dombrandt looked out on his feet at that point.

Yet was able to accelerate once he seen Penaud had the ball.

It didn't need much to make the difference between his tap tackle missing and hitting. A few inches more ground covered would have done.

In a game of inches his attitude cost him all he needed to make the play.
 
Agreed, he's missing a yard of pace but more than makes up for it with prediction and positioning. There's a reason he takes so many high balls and it's because he switches out with his wingers when he sees it coming ahead of time.

Prediction doesn't help much when the defensive line is being sliced into canapé sized pieces from every direction, however.
Totally.....not alot he could do yesterday.
 
People giving crap to Dombrandt but he looked quicker than Steward for that France try!
The point is Stewart was never catching him, Dombrant had every opportunity to actually win the ball before Penough actually caught it but some how got caught ball watching it some extent then put little effort into trying to make up for it.
 
What type of team did Jones inherit compared to Borthwick? What position was English rugby in in 2016 compared to now? Jones is a quick fix guy but the longer he stayed the worse they got. I dont think its time to panic yet although a crap performance against Ireland wont help Borthwick.
No panicking, but last year we lost to:

Sco (away) by 3.

Ire (home) by 17 despite playing virtually the whole game with 14

Fra (away) by 12.

Aus (away) by 2. But won the series

Arg (home) by 1

RSA (home) by 14.

So that's aggregate defeats in 6 games of 49 points. Yesterday was a 43 point hammering.

We might not have been very good under Jones, but at least we were broadly competitive. The NZ game should have been another defeat, but we showed the type of fight that was nowhere to be seen yesterday.

A competitive effort against Ire and we might look at yesterday as an aberration. Another shellacking and you have to wonder. The available players are pretty much unchanged.

And we're not really a team of kids either (especially up front) which is what Fra invested in to give them a great shot at their own RWC.
 
No panicking, but last year we lost to:

Sco (away) by 3.

Ire (home) by 17 despite playing virtually the whole game with 14

Fra (away) by 12.

Aus (away) by 2. But won the series

Arg (home) by 1

RSA (home) by 14.

So that's aggregate defeats in 6 games of 49 points. Yesterday was a 43 point hammering.

We might not have been very good under Jones, but at least we were broadly competitive. The NZ game should have been another defeat, but we showed the type of fight that was nowhere to be seen yesterday.

A competitive effort against Ire and we might look at yesterday as an aberration. Another shellacking and you have to wonder. The available players are pretty much unchanged.

And we're not really a team of kids either (especially up front) which is what Fra invested in to give them a great shot at their own RWC.
It's probably beyond panic at this stage, I don't have any genuine hope of winning next week, if we can show some fight and avoid a cricket score I'll be happy, especially considering the injuries Ireland suffered today, as much as I would like to believe a fix actually exists for us right now our lack of overall competitiveness in Europe gives me little hope the players actually exist, it's easy to think that because players have attributes that make them stand out in the premiership that enables them to go toe to toe with the best in the world, the more I'm sitting here the more I am thinking back to how frequently imports are the heart and sole of prem teams and stand out.

It needs looking at from grass roots up or we are going to find we switch places with Italy.
 
I know the English teams are not doing that well in the European competition this year.

But it was only back in 2019/20 Exeter won the Champions Cup.

And the same year Bristol won the Challenge Cup.

I know things move quickly in rugby, but these results were not that long ago. What has changed between then and now?
 
I know the English teams are not doing that well in the European competition this year.

But it was only back in 2019/20 Exeter won the Champions Cup.

And the same year Bristol won the Challenge Cup.

I know things move quickly in rugby, but these results were not that long ago. What has changed between then and now?
3 years
 
English rugby essentially fell off a cliff during the 2020-21 season, a premiership without Sarries, and a cap-compliant Sarries on their return. Financial concerns after playing so many matches behind closed doors, along with EJ sticking with so many Championship players... really screwed us.

Remember, all the *****ing about EJ post RWC19 are reall *****ing about him post-AIs20 (or were always anti-EJ who may or may not have accepted that RWC19 was actually quite good).
 

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