[2023 Six Nations] England vs Italy - 12 February 2023

[Saintjay]

Telegraph also reporting

7 - Willis in for Curry.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Reading the article without the paywall it all seems to be based on the journo watching a shirts vs bibs training session, so pinch of salt required I guess - like he said Isiekwe was in the starters, which feels less likely than any others

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Times reporting similarly and the trailers last week were spot on.

Don't agree with Arundell - he needs more game time in his legs. But as we've said elsewhere, maybe Borthwick's chasing X factor.

Would be tough on Curry as he's only had one shot, then again I'd have started Willis last week anyway despite his limited build up.

 

[Geordie]

Agree....not sure what Murley has to do!

 

[Scotty]

Telegraph reckons Arundell/Malins/Watson back three with Steward on the bench

Starting Arundell feels like a massive risk considering he's had 30mins of rugby in the last 3.5months and they were really poor, but then if it works out he's definitely got the X Factor

Feel for Freeman and Murley who turn in great performances week after week, though

I guess we have 4 games before the WC and he can play it safe or try something, he might put Arundell to 15 and Malins on the wing.

All i can think is italy showed they like to keep the ball so he could think Steward isnt bringing enough on attack and not being used enough under the highballs and that back line has 3 15s all more attacking than steward.

Im on the hype train but Arundell should be an impact player especially when Smith comes on at 60 min(i can dream he doesnt start with faz ok).

Still an absolute kick in the teeth for Murley and Freeman.

 

[LIONSxv]

Interesting if Steward gets dropped, he does seem to have got found out a bit at international level. Teams are definitely trying to send less bombs to him but isolate him ball in hand as he is imo quite easily skinned because of his lack of dexterity and pace off the mark.
He is very young and nothing that can't be improved upon with better positioning

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Interesting if Steward gets dropped, he does seem to have got found out a bit at international level. Teams are definitely trying to send less bombs to him but isolate him ball in hand as he is imo quite easily skinned because of his lack of dexterity and pace off the mark.
He is very young and nothing that can't be improved upon with better positioning

Yep - 22 year old with less than 20 caps in not complete player shocker. He'll become more rounded in time.

If he is stood down I suspect it will be less to do with him and more to see what others can do.

Looking ahead, Steward paired with a couple of proper fliers like Watson and Arundell on the wings who can both slip in to 15 as needed feels a nice balance.

Tough on Malins but I feel he just falls a bit short. Always wondered what he could have done if he'd concentrated at 10. Felt the same about Alex Goode too.

 

[higgik]

Yep - 22 year old with less than 20 caps in not complete player shocker. He'll become more complete in time.

If he is stood down I suspect it will be less to do with him and more to see what others can do.

Looking ahead, Steward paired with a couple of proper fliers like Watson and Arundell on the wings who can both slip in to 15 as needed feels a nice balance.

Tough on Malins but I feel he just falls a bit short. Always wondered what he could have done if he'd concentrated at 10. Felt the same about Alex Goode too.

Both Malins and Goode suit Sarries sttle of play, where the FB plays as the 2nd playmaker.
If England insist on Smith/Farrell then no place for Malins.
If
10 Farrell
11 Freeman
12 Kelly or Lawrence
13 Slade
14 Murley or OHC
15 Malins

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Maybe we've not had enough playmakers in our backline. Let's go all in

10 smith
11 Daly
12 farrell
13 slade
14 malins
15 furbank

All the playmaking ability in the world!!! No one can stop is now.

 

[BPM]

I feel like Steward is getting a lot of harsh criticism for his only less than good display for England so far.

Given his age, I expect him to have areas to work on and it would be pretty brutal to drop him.

Moreover, his mistakes were mostly in defence. Brining in Arundell in or moving Malins doesn't add anything in terms of defensive solidity.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Maybe we've not had enough playmakers in our backline. Let's go all in

10 smith
11 Daly
12 farrell
13 slade
14 malins
15 furbank

All the playmaking ability in the world!!! No one can stop is now.

Why no playmaker at 12?

 

[Crash Hamster]

I feel like Steward is getting a lot of harsh criticism for his only less than good display for England so far.

Given his age, I expect him to have areas to work on and it would be pretty brutal to drop him.

Moreover, his mistakes were mostly in defence. Brining in Arundell in or moving Malins doesn't add anything in terms of defensive solidity.

And it's not like Arundell is hugely more experienced at international level...

Steward has pretty much stopped sides raining bombs on an England 15, because he deals with them extremely well. Replace him, even if it's with someone whose defensive positioning against a running threat is better and you can expect bombs raining down again.

So if we had someone whose high-ball acumen was as high as Steward but whose defensive positoning and tackling ability was better, we'd've been playing them already, no?

I'm with you, Steward must play at 15.
(By the same token, if OHC, Ludlam, Chessum and Curry were considered good enough to start against Scotland, it's harsh to see them getting the boot against Italy. We really should be giving combinations time to bed in now*; 4 games plus warm-ups until the World Cup...)

* Not you, Smith-Farrell.

 

[HamJan]

Telegraph reckons Arundell/Malins/Watson back three with Steward on the bench

Starting Arundell feels like a massive risk considering he's had 30mins of rugby in the last 3.5months and they were really poor, but then if it works out he's definitely got the X Factor

Feel for Freeman and Murley who turn in great performances week after week, though

I think he'd be more effective from the bench after 60 minutes or so.

 

[LIONSxv]

I feel like Steward is getting a lot of harsh criticism for his only less than good display for England so far.

Given his age, I expect him to have areas to work on and it would be pretty brutal to drop him.

Moreover, his mistakes were mostly in defence. Brining in Arundell in or moving Malins doesn't add anything in terms of defensive solidity.

I'm in the main with you. Although I recall a few tries outside of this game where he either a) got gassed or b) was out of position.
He is also needs to keep working on his running game which at the moment is laboured. Obviously his work under the high ball is first class as his support play off the ball which is underated
Borthwick will know him better than most coaches, so if does decide to rest him it might because he is the type of lad that responds well to a challenge or they have identified something in his game ( perhaps positional??) Where he needs intensive work over the next 2 weeks before wales

I for one would like to see him in a back three with two speed merchants who can compensate his weakness and he can cover the aerial threat.

 

[BPM]

And it's not like Arundell is hugely more experienced at international level...

Steward has pretty much stopped sides raining bombs on an England 15, because he deals with them extremely well. Replace him, even if it's with someone whose defensive positioning against a running threat is better and you can expect bombs raining down again.

So if we had someone whose high-ball acumen was as high as Steward but whose defensive positoning and tackling ability was better, we'd've been playing them already, no?

I'm with you, Steward must play at 15.
(By the same token, if OHC, Ludlam, Chessum and Curry were considered good enough to start against Scotland, it's harsh to see them getting the boot against Italy. We really should be giving combinations time to bed in now*; 4 games plus warm-ups until the World Cup...)

* Not you, Smith-Farrell.

Agreed. Although on your last paragraph, there are established players who would usually be in those positions who are either injured or unavailable. Realistically, Watson, Lawes and Tom Curry are the more likely people we want bedded-in. The injury proneness of Watson and Lawes make it really important to have back up options who can make a genuine challenge though.

Chessum is different. That spot is 100% up for grabs and I think almost everyone prefers him to Hill.

I know I'm going to get shot down on this, but I'd also put in a word for Jonny May. He's had a rough 18mths or so without too much game time, form or tries to press his case. However, I think his positioning, defensive work and general reliability have been hugely underrated.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Agreed. Although on your last paragraph, there are established players who would usually be in those positions who are either injured or unavailable. Realistically, Watson, Lawes and Tom Curry are the more likely people we want bedded-in. The injury proneness of Watson and Lawes make it really important to have back up options who can make a genuine challenge though.

Chessum is different. That spot is 100% up for grabs and I think almost everyone prefers him to Hill.

I know I'm going to get shot down on this, but I'd also put in a word for Jonny May. He's had a rough 18mths or so without too much game time, form or tries to press his case. However, I think his positioning, defensive work and general reliability have been hugely underrated.

Plus even relatively recently, May has had the habit of standing out in otherwise dire England performances in a way not many of his team mates done. When it's the winger desperately dragging a team kicking and screaming away from absolute embarrassment, that really says something.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

No Youngs is the biggest headline from that

 

[Saintjay]

Feel a tad sorry for Ben Curry as well.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Only just clocked no Watson, that's a surprise I thought he'd be starting at 15

Seven players released are:

1. Ben Curry
2. Joe Heyes
3. Jonny Hill
4. Bevan Rodd
5. Sam Simmonds
6. Anthony Watson
7. Ben Youngs

 

[Wasps92]

I've just had to rub my eyes and check again. An England squad with no Ben Youngs.