2nd Test: South Africa v Lions

[alexrugby]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Boggle @ Jun 23 2009, 11:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Was your coach a political and racial appointment ?

No ?

well ours was, and I'm not trying to stir anything up, the -president of South african rugby- Mr Hoskins himself admitted it, that's exactly what happened, there were definitely more experienced and better coaches no one owuld have had a problem with, but somehow we ended up with P Divvy.

; _ ;[/b]

I did not understand something well or you are about the racial problems in SA rugby? :mellow: :huh:

 

[g6mcg]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Boggle @ Jun 23 2009, 08:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Was your coach a political and racial appointment ?

No ?

well ours was, and I'm not trying to stir anything up, the -president of South african rugby- Mr Hoskins himself admitted it, that's exactly what happened, there were definitely more experienced and better coaches no one owuld have had a problem with, but somehow we ended up with P Divvy.

; _ ;[/b]

He's admitted it?

Also, he might be not be a great coach, but he's still a decent club coach (I have no evidence to back that up, it's just an assumption). So I think he still probably knows better than us.

Edit: I should add iI would have Fourie in, and would have put Burger on the bench, but like I said, what do I know?

 

[Boggle]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (g6mcg @ Jun 23 2009, 09:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

He's admitted it?[/b]

yes, on television actually.

also, you can get a decent club coach, but that doesn't make him a decent international coach, the game is simply too strict at this level, you absolutely need the very best players or combinations for every single position.

 

[alexrugby]

Coaches always do some mysterious changes and put some experiments in a teams

For example Tim Lane, who is the really famous person in a world rugby and Georgia's head coach made such an experimental squad for Churchill Cup

And what we got? three loses in a row

Don't worry about that, SA stands far better than Lions do

Lions could not even overcome Emerging Boks by playing 13-13 fulltime

 

[Steve-o]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (g6mcg @ Jun 23 2009, 09:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I'm going to get attacked for saying this, but surely an International coach knows what he's doing? (I know some, well most, were unhappy with his appointment but even so).

It's like the Frank hadden situation with Scotland. We all thought we knew better, but there's a reason why he's employed not us.[/b]

In this case, no. I'm not being sarcastic when I say that just about the whole of SA doesn't want Jacobs to be there.

At 26 years old, Jacque Fourie is the 5th highest try scorer in Springbok history! He has scored 24 tries in 43 Tests, not bad for a center! He has been in great form this whole season as well. Now tell me, is our coach still right?!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (g6mcg @ Jun 23 2009, 09:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Also, he might be not be a great coach, but he's still a decent club coach (I have no evidence to back that up, it's just an assumption). So I think he still probably knows better than us.

Edit: I should add iI would have Fourie in, and would have put Burger on the bench, but like I said, what do I know?[/b]

Obviously not much because then you would know that the last 'club' team he coached was a 2nd division Currie Cup team, the Falcons. He's never coached a S14 team EVER.

 

[g6mcg]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Boggle @ Jun 23 2009, 08:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (g6mcg @ Jun 23 2009, 09:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He's admitted it?[/b]

yes, on television actually.

also, you can get a decent club coach, but that doesn't make him a decent international coach, the game is simply too strict at this level, you absolutely need the very best players or combinations for every single position.
[/b][/quote]

Mr Hoskins is a plonker then. Not only for the action, but also for admitting it! I'm shocked by how stupid that is.

On the second poitn De Villiers may not be a decent International coach, but he's closer than we are.

 

[g6mcg]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Steve-o @ Jun 23 2009, 08:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (g6mcg @ Jun 23 2009, 09:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm going to get attacked for saying this, but surely an International coach knows what he's doing? (I know some, well most, were unhappy with his appointment but even so).

It's like the Frank hadden situation with Scotland. We all thought we knew better, but there's a reason why he's employed not us.[/b]

In this case, no. I'm not being sarcastic when I say that just about the whole of SA doesn't want Jacobs to be there.

At 26 years old, Jacque Fourie is the 5th highest try scorer in Springbok history! He has scored 24 tries in 43 Tests, not bad for a center! He has been in great form this whole season as well. Now tell me, is our coach still right?!
[/b][/quote]

I've said I would have Fourie, but there must be some reasoning behind the decision. However stupid PDV is he wouldn't leave out such a good player for no reason.

I have no idea what this reason may be though. Attitude? Possibly combinations (though I can't see it), maybe an overall team strategy which Fourie is not suited to?

 

[Sebastian_Chabal]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Steve-o @ Jun 23 2009, 07:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (g6mcg @ Jun 23 2009, 09:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm going to get attacked for saying this, but surely an International coach knows what he's doing? (I know some, well most, were unhappy with his appointment but even so).

It's like the Frank hadden situation with Scotland. We all thought we knew better, but there's a reason why he's employed not us.[/b]

In this case, no. I'm not being sarcastic when I say that just about the whole of SA doesn't want Jacobs to be there.

At 26 years old, Jacque Fourie is the 5th highest try scorer in Springbok history! He has scored 24 tries in 43 Tests, not bad for a center! He has been in great form this whole season as well. Now tell me, is our coach still right?!
[/b][/quote]


Gentlemen, we all agree that Jaques is better, but he hasn't played much since he was plagued with injuries in Super 14.

 

[Aeros]

We would love to have your coach, our man is an idiot. If you watched or even read about Rose's dismal performance today you would know that he sucks.

Yet PdV believes the man is made out of gold.

Look at the unbelievably stupid substitutions and the even worse posistion mix-up.

You can also go look at some of the most unbelievable load of bullsh!t he has said before... It was glaringly OBVIOUS how disastrous Jacobs was against the Lions, yet he gets to play again. When Fourie came on (not in his regular posistion) his defense was superb.

The man makes me literally cry in anger and frustration, I'm a great rugby and Springbok lover, but I hate this man with a passion.

Jake White where art thou

EDIT: Chabal, he was coming back from injury in the England game aswell (brilliant try?) He made that try-saving tackle after his injury which led to another injury (one of our home games, Wales I think)

 

[g6mcg]

Out of interest are their any South Africans who:

A ) Agreed with the appointment?
B ) Agree with his selection policy?

He does seem to rival Hadden in weird decisions, does he have the same trait of acting too late?

 

[Steve-o]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sebastian_Chabal @ Jun 23 2009, 09:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Steve-o @ Jun 23 2009, 07:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (g6mcg @ Jun 23 2009, 09:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm going to get attacked for saying this, but surely an International coach knows what he's doing? (I know some, well most, were unhappy with his appointment but even so).

It's like the Frank hadden situation with Scotland. We all thought we knew better, but there's a reason why he's employed not us.[/b]

In this case, no. I'm not being sarcastic when I say that just about the whole of SA doesn't want Jacobs to be there.

At 26 years old, Jacque Fourie is the 5th highest try scorer in Springbok history! He has scored 24 tries in 43 Tests, not bad for a center! He has been in great form this whole season as well. Now tell me, is our coach still right?!
[/b][/quote]


Gentlemen, we all agree that Jaques is better, but he hasn't played much since he was plagued with injuries in Super 14.
[/b][/quote]

He wasn't plagued by injury this season, not at all. He was injured for maybe 2 of their last games.

Jacobs on the other hand has been plagued by bad form and injury this season. Particularly his shoulder.

When Fourie and Jacobs met head-to-head in the S14 this year, Fourie ran over him twice and completely out classed him. I was at the stadium, it was as clear as day who was better, and I'm a Sharks supporter!

 

[g6mcg]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Steve-o @ Jun 23 2009, 08:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (g6mcg @ Jun 23 2009, 09:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm going to get attacked for saying this, but surely an International coach knows what he's doing? (I know some, well most, were unhappy with his appointment but even so).

It's like the Frank hadden situation with Scotland. We all thought we knew better, but there's a reason why he's employed not us.[/b]

In this case, no. I'm not being sarcastic when I say that just about the whole of SA doesn't want Jacobs to be there.

At 26 years old, Jacque Fourie is the 5th highest try scorer in Springbok history! He has scored 24 tries in 43 Tests, not bad for a center! He has been in great form this whole season as well. Now tell me, is our coach still right?!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (g6mcg @ Jun 23 2009, 09:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Also, he might be not be a great coach, but he's still a decent club coach (I have no evidence to back that up, it's just an assumption). So I think he still probably knows better than us.

Edit: I should add iI would have Fourie in, and would have put Burger on the bench, but like I said, what do I know?[/b]

Obviously not much because then you would know that the last 'club' team he coached was a 2nd division Currie Cup team, the Falcons. He's never coached a S14 team EVER.
[/b][/quote]

Which I would still count as a club, I never said he caoched at Super 14 level.

Edit (again, sorry): I don't claim to be knowledgeable, I'm a flanker!

 

[alexrugby]

I have one question to you guyzz from SA

I have heard about the SA rugby authorities decision for Boks to have more dark skinned players in a starting squad than whites


I don't know whether this rule works or not?

 

[Boggle]

To be honest Lekso, it's not so much a "rule" anymore, they just -like- it when you choose colored players and -frown- upon picking players on actual merit, Stofile is mostly to blame, mostly because he's the biggest ass South African rugby has ever seen.

Obviously none of us have any problem with picking players of any race, as long as they're the best player for the job.
We simply don't like it when politics have an effect on the way we perform on the rugby field simply because of so called qouta selections.

of course I don't think it's that black and white anymore (err, sorry for the analogy, the only one that works XD), might be that PDV is just clinically insane.

 

[Aeros]

A ) Never. If there are those who do, they are insane or #$%$#%ers. (Everyone I know agrees with me)

B ) Choosing Jacobs ahead of Fourie, Choosing Januarie ahead of Vermaak/Kockott... Nope. Not even close.

 

[MunsterMan]

15. Kearney
14. Bowe
13. O'Driscoll
12. Roberts
11. Fitzgerald
10. Jones
9. Phillips

1. Jenkins
2. Rees
3. Jones
4. O'Callaghan
5. O'Connell
6. Croft
7. Wallace
8. Heaslip

Please Mr. McGeechan!!


5 changes, quite a few, but all these guys are the right choices IMO. Close between Wallace/Williams and Jones/O'Gara. Byrne won't be fit apparently.

 

[alexrugby]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Boggle @ Jun 24 2009, 01:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

To be honest Lekso, it's not so much a "rule" anymore, they just -like- it when you choose colored players and -frown- upon picking players on actual merit, Stofile is mostly to blame, mostly because he's the biggest ass South African rugby has ever seen.

Obviously none of us have any problem with picking players of any race, as long as they're the best player for the job.
We simply don't like it when politics have an effect on the way we perform on the rugby field simply because of so called qouta selections.

of course I don't think it's that black and white anymore (err, sorry for the analogy, the only one that works XD), might be that PDV is just clinically insane.[/b]

Well I understand yours Buddy

I agree the players must be taken depending on their skill and their ability to succeed in a jersey of South Africa and not on the race and color of skin, despite the Social and Political past of a country

I think New Zealand stands not far apart from that realty

Most players of ABs are descent of native Englanders YES? we all know history

And they also have Samoan descent players, one of the brightest stars in a past and favorite of mine Tana Umaga

And I don't think they must make some Squad selections depending on a race and descent

 

[Cymro]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MunsterMan @ Jun 23 2009, 11:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

15. Kearney
14. Bowe
13. O'Driscoll
12. Roberts
11. Fitzgerald
10. Jones
9. Phillips

1. Jenkins
2. Rees
3. Jones
4. O'Callaghan
5. O'Connell
6. Croft
7. Wallace
8. Heaslip

Please Mr. McGeechan!!


5 changes, quite a few, but all these guys are the right choices IMO. Close between Wallace/Williams and Jones/O'Gara. Byrne won't be fit apparently.[/b]

NO THANK YOU!

Byrne will be fit apparently ... sources in SA tell me so.

Think Shaw will start in front of O'Callaghan and Wyn-Jones will be on the bench for the Lions. Williams will start ahead of Wallace purely on the fact that he wins ball on the floor more than Wallace and he Williams also plays as an extra back.

Heaslip is lucky there are no other quality 8's on tour because he has been poor.

Shane Williams I felt had the better game tonight that Fitzgerald so I do well see him starting or at least getting a shout on the bench.

 

[alexrugby]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cymro @ Jun 24 2009, 02:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MunsterMan @ Jun 23 2009, 11:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

15. Kearney
14. Bowe
13. O'Driscoll
12. Roberts
11. Fitzgerald
10. Jones
9. Phillips

1. Jenkins
2. Rees
3. Jones
4. O'Callaghan
5. O'Connell
6. Croft
7. Wallace
8. Heaslip

Please Mr. McGeechan!!


5 changes, quite a few, but all these guys are the right choices IMO. Close between Wallace/Williams and Jones/O'Gara. Byrne won't be fit apparently.[/b]

NO THANK YOU!

Byrne will be fit apparently ... sources in SA tell me so.

Think Shaw will start in front of O'Callaghan and Wyn-Jones will be on the bench for the Lions. Williams will start ahead of Wallace purely on the fact that he wins ball on the floor more than Wallace and he Williams also plays as an extra back.

Heaslip is lucky there are no other quality 8's on tour because he has been poor.

Shane Williams I felt had the better game tonight that Fitzgerald so I do well see him starting or at least getting a shout on the bench.
[/b][/quote]


Squad looks great

Hope Williams will play in starting team

I am happy for O'Driscoll and O'Callaghan

 

[monkeypigeon]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cymro @ Jun 23 2009, 11:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MunsterMan @ Jun 23 2009, 11:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

15. Kearney
14. Bowe
13. O'Driscoll
12. Roberts
11. Fitzgerald
10. Jones
9. Phillips

1. Jenkins
2. Rees
3. Jones
4. O'Callaghan
5. O'Connell
6. Croft
7. Wallace
8. Heaslip

Please Mr. McGeechan!!


5 changes, quite a few, but all these guys are the right choices IMO. Close between Wallace/Williams and Jones/O'Gara. Byrne won't be fit apparently.[/b]

NO THANK YOU!

Byrne will be fit apparently ... sources in SA tell me so.

Think Shaw will start in front of O'Callaghan and Wyn-Jones will be on the bench for the Lions. Williams will start ahead of Wallace purely on the fact that he wins ball on the floor more than Wallace and he Williams also plays as an extra back.

Heaslip is lucky there are no other quality 8's on tour because he has been poor.

Shane Williams I felt had the better game tonight that Fitzgerald so I do well see him starting or at least getting a shout on the bench.
[/b][/quote]

If Byrne is ft he'll probably start. Shaw ahead of O'Callaghan for power but nothing else in my opinion. Not much between Walalce and Williams as always.

But I object to Crymo on two points

Heaslip was anonymous in match and that was behind a retreating scrum that Sergio Parisse would have struggled to do anything from.

And Shane Williams did better in the match today than he has in previous tour matches but he also lost the ball near the end of the second half and was totally absent on his wing for the second try. What the hell was he doing arseing around in the centre? Besides one poor kick Fitzgerald was better. He Didn't force anything. Made a nice break and made what was possibly a try saving tackle in what looked like a very high tackle count.