2nd tier rugby in Australia

[Tomsey]

I have been watching a little of the ITM and Currie Cups recently and it saddens me to compare it to the Australian equivalent (if you can call it that) which can only be Sydney/Brisbane club rugby. The quality of rugby/players/facilities is dismal is comparison. Sure there are pretty decent sides like your Sydney Uni's and Manly's, but you also have clubs like Parramatta and Penrith who can barley scrape together a first grade side and get beaten by more that 100-0. This raises a number of problems. Firstly it affects the depth of national quality players. The 5 Super Rugby franchises have a very small player base to select their squads from.
The poor quality of club rugby has lead to the development of “2nd XV's†for the Super teams like the Junior Waratah's and the Brumby Runners. However these squads are based around youth which so limits the opportunities for older players. They also play a very limited number of games (the Junior Waratah's only played 6 games this year). This is a huge part of the reason as to why so many schoolboy stars end up in rugby league. Once they finish school all they have to look forward to is playing 6 games a year for the a team that rarely trains and playing club rugby for next to nothing. Or they can go and play Toyota Cup (the NRL under20 competition) for a Sydney NRL team, which is much better money and offers a real chance to progress into 1st grade. Since the world cup in 2003 Rugby's share of the Australian sporting market has dropped form 22% to 13%*and League and AFL are still increasing their push for greater player numbers.
All this points to a need for an Australian nation wide rugby competition. Where is ARC tried and failed in 2007, another competition must succeed if Rugby is to remain part of the Australian sporting landscape and the Wallabies are ever to beat the All Blacks again.
I believe if an Australian Provincial competition is ever going to take off it needs to be based around the Super Rugby teams. Have Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Canberra and Perth teams. This means they can directly feed the their respective Super Rugby counterparts and the supporters are directly transferable. If you support the Waratah's then you are likely to support Sydney. If you Support the Force then you will go for Perth etc. In the ARC they had two teams in Sydney and Brisbane, effectively alienating them from supporters. I would also go with a Queensland and NSW Country sides. They could be based in regional cities like Bathurst (pop. 35 000) or Wagga (pop. 60 000) in NSW and Townsville (pop. 160 000) in QLD. Support and sponsorship could be sourced from the entire regional populations of these states meaning they would be commercially viable. The intra-state games would also be blockbusters. Imagine a NSW Country vs. Sydney game! That's seven teams so three would play every week and the other one gets a bye. They play each other twice each then a top 4 finals series makes it a 14 week competition, making it a similar length to the ITM cup which is 15 weeks.
There is plenty of room for expansion but I believe its better to start small because that means early problems/losses are comparatively small meaning one bad season doesn't mean the competition dies. (alla the ARC). Only 3 games a week also means maximum exposure because all three could be televised (eg. Friday, Saturday nights and Sunday afternoon games.)
The model is obviously not perfect but something must be done to improve the quality of rugby in Australia for the viewers sake, and for the sake of Wallabies selectors.

* SOURCE:http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/rugby-is-paying-the-price-for-smugness-in-a-changing-cutthroat-marketplace-20100728-10w44.html

 

[Feicarsinn]

I always thought a state of origin competition for domestic Aussie rugby would be great. There would be enough strong teams to make a pretty competitive tournament ala the Currie Cup. Of course the internationals would be missing but that's the entire point of 2nd tier rugby, to bring on the next crop.

 

[markshaw]

theres just no hope for rugby in australia, afl owns the country as does league and cricket!

 

[Shaggy]

I remember the Australian Provincial Championship while i was living in Sydney, and it's a shame it was canned without it really getting a chance.

If I remember correctly, there was a lack of support from the more powerful Sydney clubs like University and Randwick as they would have to combine to form the Sydney team, and it also wasn't making any money and the fan base also wasn't good - so I guess a new competition couldn't be established until those issues are addressed

I think that the new Melbourne Rebels super franchise will eventually strengthen Australian rugby, as it will increase the number of players exposed to that level of Rugby.

I know that NSW and Queenland used to play a "State of the Union" match or series - do they still play that?

I'm also a little disappointed that both Australia and New Zealand pulled their teams from the Pacific Nations Cup, but that's a separate issue

 

[Tomsey]

I remember the Australian Provincial Championship while i was living in Sydney, and it's a shame it was canned without it really getting a chance.

If I remember correctly, there was a lack of support from the more powerful Sydney clubs like University and Randwick as they would have to combine to form the Sydney team, and it also wasn't making any money and the fan base also wasn't good - so I guess a new competition couldn't be established until those issues are addressed

I think that the new Melbourne Rebels super franchise will eventually strengthen Australian rugby, as it will increase the number of players exposed to that level of Rugby.

I know that NSW and Queenland used to play a "State of the Union" match or series - do they still play that?

I'm also a little disappointed that both Australia and New Zealand pulled their teams from the Pacific Nations Cup, but that's a separate issue

The likes of Randwick and Uni still played in the Sydney competition during the ARC so I can't imagine they would have supported it due to they're best players moving up but I can't see how that would have done too much damage. I agree with you on the issue of support though. The support at both corporate and member level just wasn't enough to keep the competition afloat. The reasons for that lack of support need to be identified and rectified. I don't believe it was a code popularity issue, more a management one.
As far as the State of the Union matches go, they we're canned when the ARC began and never reborn after its demise.

 

[Shaggy]

The likes of Randwick and Uni still played in the Sydney competition during the ARC so I can't imagine they would have supported it due to they're best players moving up but I can't see how that would have done too much damage. I agree with you on the issue of support though. The support at both corporate and member level just wasn't enough to keep the competition afloat. The reasons for that lack of support need to be identified and rectified. I don't believe it was a code popularity issue, more a management one.
As far as the State of the Union matches go, they we're canned when the ARC began and never reborn after its demise.

Hopefully the ARU can get some form of competition going, and get buy in from all of the parties needed to make it happen... has anybody heard anything about any plans to make it happen?

 

[gho]

This type of second tier has been tried and has failed in Australia. Trying again is just going to lead to more monetary losses. What is needed is a cheap alternative focussed mainly on the youth.

I think the ARU should try to create a type of college rugby, like the IRB is trying to create in America. Obviously Australia doesnt have the same college level sport commitment that the US does, but if the universities got on board this would be fairly cheap. The other universities would follow Sydney Uni's example and have students as their target audience.

 

[skittles]

On the NSW Country front, there is not an inland regional city around with both the population and facilities to sustain a team. Wagga Wagga already sold its only ground with a decent grandstand, and when I moved out of there in September 2009, there was still bickering about where a new venue would be built, with no sign of a resolution. I wouldn't consider any other city large enough to hold a team.

 

[Seaton]

So basically all Aus needs is a very, very, very well off individual, who is Australian and loves rugby union to finance a competition.
Surely there is at least one of this type of person running around Aus?

I know my grammar in that second sentence is shocking

 

[Haysie]

so basically all aus needs is a very, very, very well off individual, who is australian and loves rugby union to finance a competition.
Surely there is at least one of this type of person running around aus?

I know my grammar in that second sentence is shocking

*cough* packer *cough* ^_^

 

[skittles]

Except he's somehow finding a way to haemorrhage money at the moment. He hardly needs another way to lose funds.

 

[Haysie]

The top 10 on Forbes's Australia rich list were:

1. Andrew Forrest $US4.1 billion

2. Frank Lowy $US3.6 billion

3. James Packer $US3.5 billion

4. Harry Triguboff $US3 billion

5. John Gandel $US2.4 billion

6. Kerr Neilson $US2.2 billion

7. Gina Rinehart $US2 billion

8. Anthony Pratt $US1.95 billion

9. Leslie Alan Wilson $US1.55 billion

10. Lindsay Fox $US1.5 billion




Now. Which one would we approach? Forrest I think is a rugby man... I'm not sure.

[Edit] Hmmm... Kerr Neilsen is a South African from J'Burg...

 

[skittles]

Well, Lowy's kind of busy with another sport, so I think he's ruled out.

Number 8's name suggests he's a prat (terrible joke there), so he'd be out.

Lindsay Fox once sponsored my Dad when he was Australian waterski champion, though.

 

[ORothlain]

http://www.heavensgame.com/australi...o-australian-rugby-landscape-can-feed-success
I actually really like the suggested gameplan in this article.

 

[skittles]

I would love to see some sort of collegiate sports program on any level in Australia; unfortunately, people would probably see it as "Ewww, American-style!" and ditch it.

 

[ORothlain]

I would love to see some sort of collegiate sports program on any level in Australia; unfortunately, people would probably see it as "Ewww, American-style!" and ditch it.

I'm American, and to be honest not the big uber-patriotic sort. I generally prefer things out of this country. However, I will say, our collegiate sport system is brilliant. We definitely do that well. What that article doesn't mention is that men's rugby has not been accepted into that system. We're working hard to get in as that is the only way rugby will have a solid future in the US.

The system would work, although it would take some implication and obvious convincing.

 

[skittles]

I'm American, and to be honest not the big uber-patriotic sort. I generally prefer things out of this country. However, I will say, our collegiate sport system is brilliant. We definitely do that well. What that article doesn't mention is that men's rugby has not been accepted into that system. We're working hard to get in as that is the only way rugby will have a solid future in the US.

The system would work, although it would take some implication and obvious convincing.

I love college sports (mad keen Tar Heels fan). I went to a university in country New South Wales that had a rugby team with a cult following (because the university was once an agricultural college, so all the agriculture students follow the rugby team, and it's deep in rugby territory); I think it would pull a decent crowd in a better system, as currently it only plays in the local league.

That said, it'd be nice if the ground actually had a grandstand of some description or some decent facilities. The grass around the actual field is totally unkempt; the away teams would warm up on the grass outside my dorm (which was the closest to the ground).

 

[ORothlain]

I love college sports (mad keen Tar Heels fan). I went to a university in country New South Wales that had a rugby team with a cult following (because the university was once an agricultural college, so all the agriculture students follow the rugby team, and it's deep in rugby territory); I think it would pull a decent crowd in a better system, as currently it only plays in the local league.

That said, it'd be nice if the ground actually had a grandstand of some description or some decent facilities. The grass around the actual field is totally unkempt; the away teams would warm up on the grass outside my dorm (which was the closest to the ground).

Sounds like college rugby in the US. We've warmed up outside of Frat Houses where dudes are just waking up from partying the night before. And of course a few "lucky" ladies making the walk of shame, LOL.

 

[Wally]

http://www.heavensgame.com/australi...o-australian-rugby-landscape-can-feed-success
I actually really like the suggested gameplan in this article.

Good find - quality article. I would really get behind such an idea. However I'm more passionate about rugby than most students. It's hard to embed a culture when nothing has come before it.

For now the ARU needs to invest in the grass roots and hope that the expanded Super 15/4 Nations tournaments increase the popularity of the game here. There's no doubt in my mind that the new format will be a success for two reasons; 1. 50% more local derbies (highest rated/attended) and 2. an Australian team is guaranteed to make the play-offs every year. On top of this the Wallabies need to be a winning side, and in my opinion they are on the cusp of this. Taking home the World Cup next year is the best possible scenario for the state of the game in this country.

 

[ORothlain]

Good find - quality article. I would really get behind such an idea. However I'm more passionate about rugby than most students. It's hard to embed a culture when nothing has come before it.

For now the ARU needs to invest in the grass roots and hope that the expanded Super 15/4 Nations tournaments increase the popularity of the game here. There's no doubt in my mind that the new format will be a success for two reasons; 1. 50% more local derbies (highest rated/attended) and 2. an Australian team is guaranteed to make the play-offs every year. On top of this the Wallabies need to be a winning side, and in my opinion they are on the cusp of this. Taking home the World Cup next year is the best possible scenario for the state of the game in this country.

Yeah, the finnish against the Bokkes was awesome. They are showing some serious potential.
If you give people a competition, they will come. Especially students. Tickets to collegiate sports are usually really cheap for the students (not so much for everyone else) here in the US. They have a student section, and it's cheap fun entertainment. I think it's an easy format to replicate and quite easy for the public, at least the public centered around the university, to jump on board with.