A great big Munster thread

[sugary tae]

I'm probably not expecting hodnett or jack o Sullivan to get much gametime just yet but I'll be absolutely hopping if Coombes or Wycherley are pushed out for this lad.

There's a big bunch of young lads that absolutely need gametime. Regardless of a few losses they'd guys must be blooded.

 

[Groundhog]

He's a good signing but I agree with you, there comes a time when Munster have to back their youth. John Hodnett and Jack O'Sullivan are more than good enough to step up for a couple of months. What are the odds on a Botha, Cloete, Holloway starting backrow?

It becomes a continuous cycle. Munster sign stopgaps instead of promoting from within. Leinster give their young players game time to develop but these players move elsewhere due to lack of game time in big games. Munster sign the young Leinster player because their own youth hasn't gotten enough experience!

If the talent wasn't there it'd be understandable but Munster has a ton of young talent in it's ranks which would be the envy of most teams.

......................................

On another note, Dave Kilcoyne must be pushing Cian Healy hard for the Ireland #1 shirt. He's in phenomenal form. Cian Healy will keep the jersey due to the body of work behind him but on form, it's the Munster player who deserves to start.

That's the thing. There have been stopgap signings in the past that have made sense in the darker days (Save Tokula never forget), but the talent is undeniably there now. The fact is that if this isn't the time to test youth, then when is? I'd be willing to bet we'd win the vast majority of our openers (dragons, Kings, cheetahs, Cardiff, Ospreys maybe not in that order) with our younger players and if we drop a game so what.

I have also thought Dave Kilcoyne has been in the form of his life for Ireland. He was classy last year as well for us. His scrimmaging has become a good weapon in contrast to the past. Discipline issues seem to be in the past too. He probably won't edge out Healy at the moment because Healy is an undeniably class player who has done enough to hold the job, as well as Kilcoyne's moniker as an impact guy, but I've been really pleased with him.

I'm probably not expecting hodnett or jack o Sullivan to get much gametime just yet but I'll be absolutely hopping if Coombes or Wycherley are pushed out for this lad.

There's a big bunch of young lads that absolutely need gametime. Regardless of a few losses they'd guys must be blooded.

I can see Hodnett not getting much, but Jack O'Sullivan must certainly be at the standard physically for this level. His injury was a shame, but if Penny and Baird can play, O'Sullivan is ready too. Realistically I think Wycherley will get plenty of time, but I am worried for others. Nothing against the signing himself he's a good pickup who covers a tonne of positions, but it's a cynical signing imo

 

[munstermuffin]

We've signed Jed Holloway from the Tags for two months starting end of September. Paddy Butler has also trained with Munster in the last few weeks but nothing official right now.
I would rather see us use our youth players right now. I don't care how many we are missing this is kneejerk stuff that adds nothing to the squad long-term while the World Cup is a chance for younger players to kick start their careers. In the row we have Holland as the elder statesman and then Sean O'Conner, Wycherley and Darren O'Shea with three academy guys. In back row we have Botha, Cloete, Coombes, Jack O, Oliver and then Hodnett and O'Sullivan, both good enough in the academy.

There a few injuries in that list and also McCabe training too. Holloway more an exchange as he is only here to top up for the NSW Super Rugby preseason. Sean I Connor and Fineen are being monitored but don't expect Holloway to be blocking guys.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

There a few injuries in that list and also McCabe training too. Holloway more an exchange as he is only here to top up for the NSW Super Rugby preseason. Sean I Connor and Fineen are being monitored but don't expect Holloway to be blocking guys.

The only way he won't block guys is if he doesn't play. It's an odd signing. I could understand signing a tighthead on a short term contract given Munster lack depth but signing a backrower is head-scratching.

 

[Leinster Fan]

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but do Munster not have all of Tommy O'Donnell, Chris Cloete, Arno Botha and Jack O'Donoghue? Even if one or two off them are injured, that's more than enough to get through a world cup while also leaving enough space to give young guys a shot. This signing just seems unnecessary, unless one of the guys I mentioned is out he wouldn't even be making the strongest 23.

Leinster will be going through it at the same time with Penny, Connors, Deegan (who at this stage is far too good for the Pro14) and Caelan Doris in the same position, and gets like Dunne and Baird in the second row. The only overseas signing Leinster have made in the pack the last few years is Scott Fardy, who's been worth more than Arno Botha, Cloete, and Holloway put together.

Sometimes what you need to do is just to trust the young guys, sometimes it means losing a few games in the shirt term but the long term benefits are worth it, Leinster did it in Cullen's first season and Ulster did it this year and both felt the rewards.

 

[munstermuffin]

QUOTE="snoopy snoopy dog dog, post: 956724, member: 13611"]The only way he won't block guys is if he doesn't play. It's an odd signing. I could understand signing a tighthead on a short term contract given Munster lack depth but signing a backrower is head-scratching.[/QUOTE]
Well I would guess it will be more he will play very little. And cover guys who are rehabbing or lacking gametime. Also he is signed as cover for the 2nd row predominently not as a backrow.

 

[munstermuffin]

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but do Munster not have all of Tommy O'Donnell, Chris Cloete, Arno Botha and Jack O'Donoghue? Even if one or two off them are injured, that's more than enough to get through a world cup while also leaving enough space to give young guys a shot. This signing just seems unnecessary, unless one of the guys I mentioned is out he wouldn't even be making the strongest 23.

Leinster will be going through it at the same time with Penny, Connors, Deegan (who at this stage is far too good for the Pro14) and Caelan Doris in the same position, and gets like Dunne and Baird in the second row. The only overseas signing Leinster have made in the pack the last few years is Scott Fardy, who's been worth more than Arno Botha, Cloete, and Holloway put together.

Sometimes what you need to do is just to trust the young guys, sometimes it means losing a few games in the shirt term but the long term benefits are worth it, Leinster did it in Cullen's first season and Ulster did it this year and both felt the rewards.

Cloete has had issues with arm again. So is a possibility for a small procedure. Tommy is more a case of staying fit and equally as I said the signing is not for backrow.
Also I'd disgaree on the Fardy comment as Botha and Cloete have made huge contributions here. Especially Cloete when he arrived. Not saying Fardy hasn't been good just the comment is very far fetched.

 

[Leinster Fan]

Cloete has had issues with arm again. So is a possibility for a small procedure. Tommy is more a case of staying fit and equally as I said the signing is not for backrow.
Also I'd disgaree on the Fardy comment as Botha and Cloete have made huge contributions here. Especially Cloete when he arrived. Not saying Fardy hasn't been good just the comment is very far fetched.

Fardy has been amazing though, not only on the pitch but also in terms of being a leader for the young forwards coming through, his impact at Leinster has been huge. Obviously not all teams are in the same situation but I would always prefer one legitimately top level player like him than three or four decent players.

 

[munstermuffin]

Fardy has been amazing though, not only on the pitch but also in terms of being a leader for the young forwards coming through, his impact at Leinster has been huge. Obviously not all teams are in the same situation but I would always prefer one legitimately top level player like him than three or four decent players.

True but that is same as CJ working with younger guys here and before him Howlett who practically mentored Zebo and Earls on alot. As I said not under estimating Fardy more just reining it in a bit.
And in that comparison they aren't level. Fardy is brought in as that. An experienced international to nurture guys as well as input. I'd also say his wage is more than Cloete and Arno combined as his value is more in that way.

 

[Leinster Fan]

True but that is same as CJ working with younger guys here and before him Howlett who practically mentored Zebo and Earls on alot. As I said not under estimating Fardy more just reining it in a bit.
And in that comparison they aren't level. Fardy is brought in as that. An experienced international to nurture guys as well as input. I'd also say his wage is more than Cloete and Arno combined as his value is more in that way.

Howlett is exactly what I'm talking about, a world class player who made a big impact on the pitch but was also a big presence behind the scenes, in his case for many years after he retired. It's not a provincial thing, I think guys like Fardy, Howlett, Pienaar, Nacewa etc are worth a lot more than any number of Jed Holloways.

 

[rugga658]

https://www.the42.ie/paddy-jackson-london-irish-squad-munster-protest-4804521-Sep2019/

Munstermen, please have a word with these Fecking Eejits

We don't want rugby to be ruined by SJW's and Feminists polluting our great game with their foul nonsense

 

[Groundhog]

Munster (v London Irish): Darren Sweetnam; Calvin Nash, Alex McHenry, Dan Goggin, Liam Coombes; Tyler Bleyendaal (Capt), Neil Cronin; Jeremy Loughman, Kevin O'Byrne, Keynan Knox; Darren O'Shea, Fineen Wycherley; Jack O'Donoghue, John Hodnett, Gavin Coombes.

Replacements: Diarmuid Barron, James Cronin, Peter McCabe, Stephen Archer, Thomas Ahern, Seán O'Connor, Arno Botha, Tommy O'Donnell, Jack O'Sullivan, Craig Casey, Nick McCarthy, JJ Hanrahan, Ben Healy, Shane Daly, Rory Scannell, Mike Haley.

Very young starting team, excited to go to this. I imagine we'll see almost two different teams play in the halves. Particularly excited for Hodnett in the starting team. Hope Jack O'Bestsurname gets a good run out and Ben Healy hopefully gets in around 40. That would be noice.

 

[munstermuffin]

Howlett is exactly what I'm talking about, a world class player who made a big impact on the pitch but was also a big presence behind the scenes, in his case for many years after he retired. It's not a provincial thing, I think guys like Fardy, Howlett, Pienaar, Nacewa etc are worth a lot more than any number of Jed Holloways.

But Holloway is coming for his own benefit too as in not to play but learn

 

[munstermuffin]

Munster (v London Irish): Darren Sweetnam; Calvin Nash, Alex McHenry, Dan Goggin, Liam Coombes; Tyler Bleyendaal (Capt), Neil Cronin; Jeremy Loughman, Kevin O'Byrne, Keynan Knox; Darren O'Shea, Fineen Wycherley; Jack O'Donoghue, John Hodnett, Gavin Coombes.

Replacements: Diarmuid Barron, James Cronin, Peter McCabe, Stephen Archer, Thomas Ahern, Seán O'Connor, Arno Botha, Tommy O'Donnell, Jack O'Sullivan, Craig Casey, Nick McCarthy, JJ Hanrahan, Ben Healy, Shane Daly, Rory Scannell, Mike Haley.

Very young starting team, excited to go to this. I imagine we'll see almost two different teams play in the halves. Particularly excited for Hodnett in the starting team. Hope Jack O'Bestsurname gets a good run out and Ben Healy hopefully gets in around 40. That would be noice.

Some will only play 15mins if even but great and I think 6 or 7 max aren't academy lads. Of the squad

 

[Leinster Fan]

That's a quality squad with a long of young talent. With the players coming through at Leinster and the other provinces there's a lot cause for optimism in Irish rugby.

 

[sugary tae]

I like the look of the team. Very interesting to see how that backrow goes especially.

Be nice to see jack o Sullivan even for a few mins. He looked a player at u20s.... has he bulked up much?
Ben Healy really seems to be pushing on.

 

[munstermuffin]

I like the look of the team. Very interesting to see how that backrow goes especially.

Be nice to see jack o Sullivan even for a few mins. He looked a player at u20s.... has he bulked up much?
Ben Healy really seems to be pushing on.

Has put on a bit but a lot more to go. And will only continue to improve.
The trick for alot is to bulk up but not loose speed and power.

 

[profitius]

I like the look of the team. Very interesting to see how that backrow goes especially.

Be nice to see jack o Sullivan even for a few mins. He looked a player at u20s.... has he bulked up much?
Ben Healy really seems to be pushing on.

I'm not fully convinced by Healy yet. His kicking was possibly the best in the U20 world cup of all the players at it but in terms of running a back line, Jake Flannery was much better. I'm more excited by Flannery but Healy does have a lot of potential.

 

[Leinster Fan]

I'm not fully convinced by Healy yet. His kicking was possibly the best in the U20 world cup of all the players at it but in terms of running a back line, Jake Flannery was much better. I'm more excited by Flannery but Healy does have a lot of potential.

It's a very promising era for Irish rugby when a guy as promising as Ben Healy was only third choice for the U20s last year.

 

[Groundhog]

Is Sean French injured? Doesn't seem to be involved for As or firsts