A Political Thread pt. 2

[AlRums]

Yeah yeah harry saying people are anti Jewish people is like saying everything is far right...

"Criticism of Israel similar to that leveled against any other country cannot be regarded as antisemitic. Antisemitic acts are criminal when they are so defined by law (for example, denial of the Holocaust or distribution of antisemitic materials in some countries)."

From the gov definition of anti-Semitism

A definition of antisemitism

The problem of antisemitism continues to be a serious one. One issue is the absence of an agreed international definition of antisemitism.

www.gov.uk

For instance I abhor Israel's actions but am ambivalent towards Jews.

Just as I abhor Israel's declaration of any comment against Israel is anti-Semitic.

 

[AlRums]

So you think you can never justify striking a sovereign nation? It's wrong in itself?

It's an act or war without question.

 

[AlRums]

And Hamas killing 6 jews in Tel Aviv yesterday. Doesn't scream peace either tbh

Israel are at war with Hamas and the Palestinian authority, including the West Bank where illegal Israeli settlers are essentially allowed to kill at will and without consequence.

 

[dirty harry]

Yeah yeah harry saying people are anti Jewish people is like saying everything is far right...

Are you making the claim the rhetoric of allegations of being anti Jewish is the same as allegations of people being far right?

 

[dirty harry]

Israel are at war with Hamas and the Palestinian authority, including the West Bank where illegal Israeli settlers are essentially allowed to kill at will and without consequence.

I dont think you've ever condemned Hamas without adding how evil Isreal are...

Are you able?

 

[Saintjay]

Israel are at war with Hamas and the Palestinian authority, including the West Bank where illegal Israeli settlers are essentially allowed to kill at will and without consequence.

I get that but the only way to peace is through Hamas and Israel.

Hamas killing 6 jews wasn't looking for peace nor are the latest actions of Israel.

 

[McTallshort]

So you think you can never justify striking a sovereign nation? It's wrong in itself?

Look you tell yourself whatever you want mate.

 

[dirty harry]

Wait is there any neutral, Qatari or Isreali confirmation of what happened, or are we just accepting Hamas claims as fact again?

Im doing a bit of digging, but BBC and many others are just publishing Hamas claims arent they, 6 dead but leaders unhurt?

Can someone post a link please

Edit: ive found some stuff, Qatari and Isreali remarks about the operation etc...

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

On the one hand Israel has shown in the past a willingness to inflict massive collateral damage in neutral nations to eliminate targets, including bombs in populated areas. This dropped off after some high profile cases in Germany really led to the **** hitting the fan. On the other, I actually wouldn't be surprised to learn Qatar knew of it and turned a blind eye. The oil rich Arab states know which side their bread is buttered but also want to be able to keep the Muslim population on board, so they publicly say one thing but do something else behind closed doors.

Hard to say but it's again one group acting in an unacceptable manner to hurt another group who have acted and continue to act in an unacceptable manner.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Look you tell yourself whatever you want mate.

And you accused me of avoiding questions. That's 2 of mine you've dodged.

 

[AlRums]

I get that but the only way to peace is through Hamas and Israel.

Hamas killing 6 jews wasn't looking for peace nor are the latest actions of Israel.

True, I agree

 

[AlRums]

I dont think you've ever condemned Hamas without adding how evil Isreal are...

Are you able?

And the relevance of that is?

 

[AlRums]

Wait is there any neutral, Qatari or Isreali confirmation of what happened, or are we just accepting Hamas claims as fact again?

Im doing a bit of digging, but BBC and many others are just publishing Hamas claims arent they, 6 dead but leaders unhurt?

Can someone post a link please

Edit: ive found some stuff, Qatari and Isreali remarks about the operation etc...

As usual you didn't read the Al-Jazeera link I posted which gave you the information you asked for.

 

[AlRums]

On the one hand Israel has shown in the past a willingness to inflict massive collateral damage in neutral nations to eliminate targets, including bombs in populated areas. This dropped off after some high profile cases in Germany really led to the **** hitting the fan. On the other, I actually wouldn't be surprised to learn Qatar knew of it and turned a blind eye. The oil rich Arab states know which side their bread is buttered but also want to be able to keep the Muslim population on board, so they publicly say one thing but do something else behind closed doors.

Hard to say but it's again one group acting in an unacceptable manner to hurt another group who have acted and continue to act in an unacceptable manner.

Apparently the first Qatar found out about it was when the US rang them just as everything going bang.

 

[Welsh Exile]

"Criticism of Israel similar to that leveled against any other country cannot be regarded as antisemitic. Antisemitic acts are criminal when they are so defined by law (for example, denial of the Holocaust or distribution of antisemitic materials in some countries)."

From the gov definition of anti-Semitism

A definition of antisemitism

The problem of antisemitism continues to be a serious one. One issue is the absence of an agreed international definition of antisemitism.

www.gov.uk

For instance I abhor Israel's actions but am ambivalent towards Jews.

Just as I abhor Israel's declaration of any comment against Israel is anti-Semitic.

Israel invites criticism, at least internally, otherwise they wouldn't have things like Haaretz or B'Tselem or communist parties amongst other political parties covering all spectrums.

 

[Welsh Exile]

From your article

Examples of the ways in which antisemitism manifests itself with regard to the State of Israel taking into account the overall context could include:

• Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.
• Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.
• Using the symbols and images associated with classic antisemitism (e.g., claims of Jews killing Jesus or blood libel) to characterize Israel or Israelis.
• Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.
• Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel.

I'm getting Deja vu.

 

[The Seeker]

I'm pro-Israel, but Netanyahu (in his sixth term) does a lot of things that I don't agree with. I think he should step down, but we all know that's not going to happen. From the polls that I've seen a lot of Israeli's feel the same way. But they realize that they're most likely stuck with him until his terms ends. I've been to Israel as a tourist, but I definitely wouldn't want to live there.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I'm pro-Israel, but Netanyahu (in his sixth term) does a lot of things that I don't agree with. I think he should step down, but we all know that's not going to happen. From the polls that I've seen a lot of Israeli's feel the same way. But they realize that they're most likely stuck with him until his terms ends. I've been to Israel as a tourist, but I definitely wouldn't want to live there.

My Gran visited various countries and said the way she was treated in Israel was the worst by a country mile.

 

[Saintjay]

Didn't realise the Governent haven't concluded Israel is committing genocide. Leaving up to international courts to decide.

 

[AlRums]

From your article

Examples of the ways in which antisemitism manifests itself with regard to the State of Israel taking into account the overall context could include:

• Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.
• Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.
• Using the symbols and images associated with classic antisemitism (e.g., claims of Jews killing Jesus or blood libel) to characterize Israel or Israelis.
• Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.
• Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel.

I'm getting Deja vu.

Of what?

Actually the claim of Jews killing jesus is debatable

The Sanhedrin trial of Jesus is very well chronicled in the new testament and the Gospels. That said it's not characterizing Israel or Israelis.

Sanhedrin trial of Jesus - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

If you're trying to take a dig at me I haven't crossed any of those lines, especially the double standards one.

Israel have delayed, stopped aid for many months. I would hold any country to account for that even my own.