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A Political Thread pt. 2

Ragey Erasmus

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I doubt he believes that but he knows there are still enough brexit fanatics out there who can make it into a nightmare and the whole next election gets turned into how Starmer wants to overturn the will of the people etc etc. It's a political minefield not worth going into unless he can be pretty certain that anti-Brexit feeling is strong enough that support for re-joining vastly outweighs the Brexit or neutral vote. Many who say Brexit isn't working aren't in favour of voting again or re-joining unfortunately.
 

Welsh Exile

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I agree with everything said above though I did hear one stat that said 1 in 5 Brexit voters have changed their mind. No idea how accurate that is, though. Moot point anyway as Starmer isn’t going to touch it for all the reasons stated above.
 

Which Tyler

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I doubt he believes that but he knows there are still enough brexit fanatics out there who can make it into a nightmare and the whole next election gets turned into how Starmer wants to overturn the will of the people etc etc. It's a political minefield not worth going into unless he can be pretty certain that anti-Brexit feeling is strong enough that support for re-joining vastly outweighs the Brexit or neutral vote. Many who say Brexit isn't working aren't in favour of voting again or re-joining unfortunately.
Also, we need to rebuilt bridges with the EU; if we voted to rejoin, we wouldn't get straight back in, certainly not with our previous deal.
The path back in is most likely in small steps and gradually greater integration; and will require us to show a willingness to cooperate rather than antagonise at every step, and will require a reasonably consistent course over several prime ministerships; with the big steps likely needing to be taken in not-first terms as PM, once political capital has been build up (both at home, in an relations with the EU)
 

Ragey Erasmus

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Also, we need to rebuilt bridges with the EU; if we voted to rejoin, we wouldn't get straight back in, certainly not with our previous deal.
The path back in is most likely in small steps and gradually greater integration; and will require us to show a willingness to cooperate rather than antagonise at every step, and will require a reasonably consistent course over several prime ministerships; with the big steps likely needing to be taken in not-first terms as PM, once political capital has been build up (both at home, in an relations with the EU)
This is how I think he will do it if that is what he intends. Don't commit to it now and give the Tories a convenient distraction from their atrocious track record. Get into power, slowly re-engage and then at a more secure time, potentially put the question back to the public again.
 

Which Tyler

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This is how I think he will do it if that is what he intends. Don't commit to it now and give the Tories a convenient distraction from their atrocious track record. Get into power, slowly re-engage and then at a more secure time, potentially put the question back to the public again.
Exactly, especially the bolded bit.
Why make the political news all about how labour f***ed up, when it's so busy reporting on how the tories are f***ing up.

Whatever happened to the popular front reg?
 
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Gavin

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I mean he is talking absolute rubbish.

Rejoining the SM would totally help the UK economy. Means free trade and no paperwork.

And surely joining the SM is certainty. It means business understand the situation and the rules. Not joining the SM means this can change is the UK diverges further
 

Bada-Bing!

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I’ve always felt that it took 40 odd years to get “Brexit done”, but it’ll take at least another 40 years to return to the SM. Only when peeps know what they lost will they truly appreciate what they actually had.
 

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Well just getting the ferry at Holyhead and everyone is loading up at the Duty free shop! One benefit I suppose
 

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Ragey Erasmus

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What a …..
"He was demoted from foreign secretary to justice secretary shortly after the Afghanistan evacuation but made deputy prime minister at the same time."

The ******* Tories for you... This lot really have no redeeming features. It's not even like they have policies that you dislike but otherwise seem ok, they are through and through all absolute scum.
 

Kiwiwomble

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This. I don't know why it's so difficult for politicians to simply look at what seems to work worldwide and copy it. Then again the failures of the NHS aren't necessarily due to it being funded by direct taxation and more by the Tories systematically tearing it apart every time they are in office. NI contributions should also be progressive rather than regressive as they currently are.
its shocking but no longer surprising, during COVID learning the different states in Aus were all making their own tracing apps etc rather than coming up with a national one that worked, even 2 years in we were hearing about how one states system worked and others didn't...but they were sticking with it because it was theirs...we're doomed
 

Booboobang

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See appeasement before WW2 for what happens when you let a completely insane and unreasonable dictator get away with ever increasing acts of aggression because you fear the ultimate act of aggression. It never works and it never will. These people ALWAYS look at these situations as proof that ever increasing levels of aggression work. Remember we have already appeased Putin multiple times and let him get away with literal murder. Rigging the elections in Russia, the invasion of Georgia, the assassination of Litvinenko, the attempted assassination of Skripal (one using nuclear material, the other using a deadly nerve agent),f the actions in Syria, the political interference in Ukraine to move it away from the west and the EU, the annexation of Crimea, the multi-year military campaign in the breakaway regions of Ukraine and now full blown war and attempted annexation of Ukraine and sabotaging of international infrastructure.

Did appeasement do anything to prevent him from escalating before? No. It will do nothing to prevent him trying again now. You know what the next step of escalation is? Seeing if NATO is prepared for a nuclear war when Russia invades the Baltics. Would you agree we go all out then or would you let him take them? How about when he invades Finland? An EU state? Where do you draw the line because, unless he dies, he WILL escalate again. We could have done more to stamp this out earlier in the escalations when he could have backed down without losing too much face but we didn't and now it's got to a point where the stakes are high. If we back down again, those stakes will only be even higher next time. With Putin's time likely limited now and his desire to leave a "legacy", that next escalation could occur very soon after we back down. He would love nothing more than to go down in history as the Russian who beat down NATO.
This isn't appeasement, it would be appeasement if the west did literally nothing, they have supplied an ungodly amount of weapons to Ukraine. You are also trying to draw conclusions from a pre nucleur weapon world wich just isnt relevent in the modern day. You're also attempting to compare Russia to Nazi Germany, which dominated everyone; they went up against everyone and thus couldn't be stopped; Russia failed at the first hurdle and couldn't even roll over Ukraine, so it's unlikely they'll try again, especially when their forces have been decimated against a non-NATO country, let alone their NATO member neighbors. Come on, use some logic here and realize it's not at all comparable, or are you attempting to portray Russia as a powerful force while also claiming they are weak, have almost no manpower, can't do anything in terms of nuclear weapons, and have completely embarrassed themselves in Russia? What troops will be used in the next escalation? If they can't knock over ukraine who is it they are going after next? What Nato member are they going to hit to deal with the US? Its a non-entity, a fiction, to assume they even have the resources or ability to escalate again against any developed nation.

It would be appeasement if you just let Russia set the demands, that wasnt mentioned, simply that the west will go for a diplomatic solution rather than let nukes fly, wich would inturn lead to the end of civilisation.
 

Ragey Erasmus

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Literally everything in the country is falling to pieces and the Tories are doing their best Nero impression. On their watch we have gone from the top performing country in Europe to the bottom. **** them.
 

The Oggmonster

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Don't forget that a Tory rebel group led by Johnson and Truss has forced the Govt to can their house building targets because their toff constituents don't want new houses being built in their areas. Controlling borders is now being done at a constituency level it seems. So much for levelling up and trying to help first time buyers get on to the housing ladder.
 

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