A Political Thread pt. 2

[ncurd]

Not sure how you sell it to the Unionist parts and people down Shankill Road.

Not today but at 41 I think have about 59 years for it to happen.

 

[dirty harry]

How is anything you wrote there support the argument that Fararge is trustworthy?

But yes, the man who made it his lifelong mission to hold, and win, a referendum on Brexit (as well as all the things you said above about lying and not taking responsibility) is someone I hold, among others, largely responsible for the mess we found ourselves in.

To answer your question, because people are fed up with the perceived immigration problem.

Im not making the argument hes trustworthy, I dont like him, im making the case hos trust hasn't been eroded with the public, and hes getting more popular...

You might hold him largely responsible, I hold him somewhat responsible, but a huge amount of people find those who implemented Brexit badly responsible, having anti Brexit politicians negotiate on behalf of Brexit was madness lol, and well it gives Farages views of Brexit being ****** up by them legitimately.

I think your right about immigration, Brits have repeatedly voted against immigration for a decade without anyone actually doing anything, and thats why I think Farage holds the cards in the polls.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Im not making the argument hes trustworthy, I dont like him, im making the case hos trust hasn't been eroded with the public, and hes getting more popular...

You might hold him largely responsible, I hold him somewhat responsible, but a huge amount of people find those who implemented Brexit badly responsible, having anti Brexit politicians negotiate on behalf of Brexit was madness lol, and well it gives Farages views of Brexit being ****** up by them legitimately.

I think your right about immigration, Brits have repeatedly voted against immigration for a decade without anyone actually doing anything, and thats why I think Farage holds the cards in the polls.

If you had to put a % on it what would you go for roughly? Is somewhat responsible 5% or 40%/50%?

The problem is his supporters will say what you’ve just said and proportion zero % of the blame on him. Even though what happened was always going to happen.

But as has been said, voter denial will play a big role in this. If Fararge is PM and doesn’t solve the immigration problem it will be others that are to blame for that I’m sure.

 

[dirty harry]

I hope it happens. Farage would also give Scottish independence a shot in the arm. Labour have taken a lot of the heat off the SNP this past year and Scotland will never warm to someone like Farage as PM.

Scotland and N Ireland voted 62% and 58% respectively to remain in the EU. If one leaves the UK I don't think the other will be far behind and it would be glorious for that to be owned by Reform or the Tories in their pursuit of Brexit and little Britain.

Is this true? I dont think it is, i think they voted for the UK to remain in the EU, not for Scotland or NI to remain in the EU. There is a big difference of making the implications that both Scotland and NI would break up the UK to re enter the EU...

But your overall point about a Reform government enboldening the sentiment on independanxe might be a possible outcome, the question is it the best possible outcome for those who want independance?

 

[dirty harry]

If you had to put a % on it what would you go for roughly? Is somewhat responsible 5% or 40%/50%?

The problem is his supporters will say what you've just said and proportion zero % of the blame on him. Even though what happened was always going to happen.

But as has been said, voter denial will play a big role in this. If Fararge is PM and doesn't solve the immigration problem it will be others that are to blame for that I'm sure.

I couldn't possibly put a number on it, Brexit was a complex mess, I dislike everyone involved, as you know, and I think the vote devolved into shitbaggery.

What i hoped for, after the vote was a unification, the government putting together a team of the best possible, and best motivated people to get the best deal for the UK. We all agree that didnt happen (I would hope) and the UK were hampered in most aspects, leading to poor management, decision making, undermining and attempts to overturn the mandate (if you wanted to talk about threats to democracy lol).

Farage will have a legitimate argument that Brexit failed due to implementation, he will also use a number of referendums which carried the anti immigration sentiment as back up to this argument, until one day he stands up and says enough red vs blue, we need a party who will actually do what they say they will do and address the problem...

So in the view of the public, the Tories burnt their loyalty and trust down to 6 million votes, Labour have been sliding since Blair, their votes have dropped over the last few referendum to 9 million (worst winning haul since barely getting more than Blair in recent memory if i rememeber correctly) and now both parties have a crisis. By both being so disgusting Farage looks like honest john.

I mean, if you ranked Badenoch, Starmer and Farage in trustworthy order, who would you rank on top when it comes to implementing what they say they will? Honestly!

 

[General Melchett]

Is this true? I dont think it is, i think they voted for the UK to remain in the EU, not for Scotland or NI to remain in the EU. There is a big difference of making the implications that both Scotland and NI would break up the UK to re enter the EU...

But your overall point about a Reform government enboldening the sentiment on independanxe might be a possible outcome, the question is it the best possible outcome for those who want independance?

Where did I say Scotland and N Ireland were EU member states and were part of the question on the ballot paper? You know full well what I meant - we have the voting data on how each of the four nations voted but as usual you went into contrarian mode and made an arse of yourself.

 

[dirty harry]

Where did I say Scotland and N Ireland were EU member states and were part of the question on the ballot paper? You know full well what I meant - we have the voting data on how each of the four nations voted but as usual you went into contrarian mode and made an arse of yourself.

Don't try to back track now, you know how you used the demographic stat, as all dishonest people have since Brexit, just put your hand up and say that Scotland and NI didnt vote to stay in the EU, because they never.

 

[Welsh Exile]

I couldn't possibly put a number on it, Brexit was a complex mess, I dislike everyone involved, as you know, and I think the vote devolved into shitbaggery.

What i hoped for, after the vote was a unification, the government putting together a team of the best possible, and best motivated people to get the best deal for the UK. We all agree that didnt happen (I would hope) and the UK were hampered in most aspects, leading to poor management, decision making, undermining and attempts to overturn the mandate (if you wanted to talk about threats to democracy lol).

Farage will have a legitimate argument that Brexit failed due to implementation, he will also use a number of referendums which carried the anti immigration sentiment as back up to this argument, until one day he stands up and says enough red vs blue, we need a party who will actually do what they say they will do and address the problem...

So in the view of the public, the Tories burnt their loyalty and trust down to 6 million votes, Labour have been sliding since Blair, their votes have dropped over the last few referendum to 9 million (worst winning haul since barely getting more than Blair in recent memory if i rememeber correctly) and now both parties have a crisis. By both being so disgusting Farage looks like honest john.

I mean, if you ranked Badenoch, Starmer and Farage in trustworthy order, who would you rank on top when it comes to implementing what they say they will? Honestly!

I’m asking for a % on your personal opinion. You said you hold him somewhat responsible so what is it. Just a rough estimate.

I’ll reply to the rest later if I can.

 

[ncurd]

I mean, if you ranked Badenoch, Starmer and Farage in trustworthy order, who would you rank on top when it comes to implementing what they say they will? Honestly!

Baendoch (she's a true beliver), Starmer and then way below Farage.

Farage has never delivered on anything he's promised. Doesn't turn up in parliament, doesn't turn up in his constituency and has extremely similar form in turning up to committee he begged to be part of when Britain was part of EU.

 

[dirty harry]

Baendoch (she's a true beliver), Starmer and then way below Farage.

Farage has never delivered on anything he's promised. Doesn't turn up in parliament, doesn't turn up in his constituency and has extremely similar form in turning up to committee he begged to be part of when Britain was part of EU.

The question is trustworthiness, not effectiveness. I have no doubt Farage isnt capable of implementing what he says, but I dont doubt he will try, the same way Trumps campaign promises are defacto the most honest any US president has ever made lol).

In that alone, Starmer ranks 3rd, its just a question of whether Farages bluster is false enough to take 2nd surely

 

[General Melchett]

Don't try to back track now, you know how you used the demographic stat, as all dishonest people have since Brexit, just put your hand up and say that Scotland and NI didnt vote to stay in the EU, because they never.

EU Referendum Results

Up to the minute results for the 2016 EU Referendum from BBC News

www.bbc.co.uk

You like sources don't you? Read it and weep. These are the stats I was referring to - it clearly states how each nation voted but you tried to get me on semantics and it's frankly laughable to suggest that I meant each nation was voting as a separate EU member state.

 

[Ddanno]

you ok hun?

I'm tired of your crap BS, follow your line of argument you can't stay consistent in a matter of hours...

It's just tedious now.

Hit that ignore button. You'll love it.

 

[dirty harry]

EU Referendum Results

Up to the minute results for the 2016 EU Referendum from BBC News

www.bbc.co.uk

You like sources don't you? Read it and weep arsehole. These are the stats I was referring to - it clearly states how each nation voted but you tried to get me on semantics and it's frankly laughable to suggest that I meant each nation was voting as a separate EU member state.

You are absolutely right...

It is laughable.

 

[General Melchett]

You are absolutely right...

It is laughable.

You should write to the BBC and tell them their four nation stats are wrong because the vote was about the UK's membership of the EU. Do let us know what they come back with.

 

[dirty harry]

You should write to the BBC and tell them their four nation stats are wrong because the vote was about the UK's membership of the EU. Do let us know what they come back with.

Mate you can post all the links in the world, but they will never back up your assertion on independance because Scotland and NI voted to leave the UK, when they absolutely never.

Im not sure if your aware your pulling the decade old trick, or whether you've just heard it enough, but Scotland, NI, and Wales come to think of it, did not vote to remain in the EU, that was never the question, it has no relevance on independence sentiment etc...

Just be honest.

 

[ncurd]

The question is trustworthiness, not effectiveness. I have no doubt Farage isnt capable of implementing what he says, but I dont doubt he will try, the same way Trumps campaign promises are defacto the most honest any US president has ever made lol).

In that alone, Starmer ranks 3rd, its just a question of whether Farages bluster is false enough to take 2nd surely

I don't think Farage has any intention of doing anything he says, he doesn't want power he want to keep his grift going. His entire thing is about shouting from the sidelines.

 

[Ddanno]

I don't think Farage has any intention of doing anything he says, he doesn't want power he want to keep his grift going. His entire thing is about shouting from the sidelines.

Been said many times before - he's just a heckler. Or a dog chasing cars, he wouldn't know what to do if he actually caught one. And he actually caught both Brexit and a bunch of council elections, both of which are obviously going very well indeed.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

The big issue with farage is not that he's held responsible (he essentially did nothing but shout from the sidelines), but that's he's not held accountable for lying or being wrong. He made plenty of claims about Brexit which were weapons grade bullshit. These included things like we would get a Norway style deal no problem, we held all the cards, Europe needed us more than we needed them (same as the official Brexit campaign).

He's then not here to account for throwing his toys out of the pram wherever his feet are held to the fire over his claims and whatever he has said. It's the same as for Trump and to a degree Johnson, there is this attitude of letting those on the right and far right get away with much much more than those on the left.

 

[ncurd]

 

[AlRums]

EU Referendum Results

Up to the minute results for the 2016 EU Referendum from BBC News

www.bbc.co.uk

You like sources don't you? Read it and weep. These are the stats I was referring to - it clearly states how each nation voted but you tried to get me on semantics and it's frankly laughable to suggest that I meant each nation was voting as a separate EU member state.

Are you honestly expecting him to read that?

You should know by now he never reads anything put in front of him. He must miss the crayons.