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The Clubhouse Bar
A Political Thread pt. 2
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<blockquote data-quote="Reiser99" data-source="post: 1034349" data-attributes="member: 72977"><p>Your main point it seems, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that reason black people (mainly men) in America are more likely to stopped, arrested, treated violently or shot by the police is because statistically they are more likely to commit a crime. However, there is no racial bias in this, it is a consequence on black people committing more crimes because of socio-economic problems that have helped lead them to crime in the first place.</p><p></p><p>I have no problem with statistics being used, but I have two main issues. First is that if your argument was correct there would be a correlation between percentage of crimes committed by black people and the percentage of black people shot by law enforcement. Now I will admit that I can't find exact corresponding numbers, but according to the Department for Justice website <a href="https://www.ojjdp.gov/ojstatbb/crime/ucr.asp?table_in=2&selYrs=2019&rdoGroups=1&rdoData=rp" target="_blank">https://www.ojjdp.gov/ojstatbb/crime/ucr.asp?table_in=2&selYrs=2019&rdoGroups=1&rdoData=rp</a> the percentage of crimes committed by black people were on average 27% between 2015-2019. However I can't see Hispanic/Latino as ethnicity on here so I assume it comes under black. White people committed 70% of crimes. </p><p>For unarmed shootings (<a href="https://www.bmj.com/company/newsroom/fatal-police-shootings-of-unarmed-black-people-in-us-more-than-3-times-as-high-as-in-whites/" target="_blank">https://www.bmj.com/company/newsroom/fatal-police-shootings-of-unarmed-black-people-in-us-more-than-3-times-as-high-as-in-whites/</a>) Black and Hispanic deaths accounted for 46%. White people 51%. </p><p>In terms of overall police shootings (<a href="https://www.statista.com/statistics/1123070/police-shootings-rate-ethnicity-us/" target="_blank">https://www.statista.com/statistics/1123070/police-shootings-rate-ethnicity-us/</a>) black people accounted for 35% of police shootings Hispanic people 26%. White people just 14%.</p><p></p><p>The percentages don't add up. There is no clear correlation between percentage of crime committed and percentage of black people killed by police. How can you explain the difference other than racial bias? </p><p></p><p>Second is that statistics tell us nothing to do with the motivation or sequence of events that lead to the killing of these people. What does is eye witnesses, video evidence etc. Therefore using statistics to try and show there is no racial motivation is like a song without the music. It's only part of the whole picture. I have no objection to using statistics, but you seem to be entirely reliant on statistics to support your argument ignoring the first hand accounts of people who have lived through systemic racism.</p><p></p><p>Now we seem to disagree on what systemic racism means. I've already explained that. What I will do is provide more evidence of how black people are treated differently by law enforcement in America. Here is just one high profile example. <a href="https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/blm-protests-trump-riots-police-response-b1783611.html" target="_blank">https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/blm-protests-trump-riots-police-response-b1783611.html</a> Just look at the way the police prepared for and handled the BLM protests in Washington, compared with the MAGA protests that genuinely tried to stop the democratic process of the US.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Reiser99, post: 1034349, member: 72977"] Your main point it seems, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that reason black people (mainly men) in America are more likely to stopped, arrested, treated violently or shot by the police is because statistically they are more likely to commit a crime. However, there is no racial bias in this, it is a consequence on black people committing more crimes because of socio-economic problems that have helped lead them to crime in the first place. I have no problem with statistics being used, but I have two main issues. First is that if your argument was correct there would be a correlation between percentage of crimes committed by black people and the percentage of black people shot by law enforcement. Now I will admit that I can't find exact corresponding numbers, but according to the Department for Justice website [URL]https://www.ojjdp.gov/ojstatbb/crime/ucr.asp?table_in=2&selYrs=2019&rdoGroups=1&rdoData=rp[/URL] the percentage of crimes committed by black people were on average 27% between 2015-2019. However I can't see Hispanic/Latino as ethnicity on here so I assume it comes under black. White people committed 70% of crimes. For unarmed shootings ([URL]https://www.bmj.com/company/newsroom/fatal-police-shootings-of-unarmed-black-people-in-us-more-than-3-times-as-high-as-in-whites/[/URL]) Black and Hispanic deaths accounted for 46%. White people 51%. In terms of overall police shootings ([URL]https://www.statista.com/statistics/1123070/police-shootings-rate-ethnicity-us/[/URL]) black people accounted for 35% of police shootings Hispanic people 26%. White people just 14%. The percentages don't add up. There is no clear correlation between percentage of crime committed and percentage of black people killed by police. How can you explain the difference other than racial bias? Second is that statistics tell us nothing to do with the motivation or sequence of events that lead to the killing of these people. What does is eye witnesses, video evidence etc. Therefore using statistics to try and show there is no racial motivation is like a song without the music. It's only part of the whole picture. I have no objection to using statistics, but you seem to be entirely reliant on statistics to support your argument ignoring the first hand accounts of people who have lived through systemic racism. Now we seem to disagree on what systemic racism means. I've already explained that. What I will do is provide more evidence of how black people are treated differently by law enforcement in America. Here is just one high profile example. [URL]https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/blm-protests-trump-riots-police-response-b1783611.html[/URL] Just look at the way the police prepared for and handled the BLM protests in Washington, compared with the MAGA protests that genuinely tried to stop the democratic process of the US. [/QUOTE]
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