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truthteller said:
1) as usual your replies resort to abuse personal attack and swearing, that says far more about you than the person youre attacking
1) I didnt say any immigration problem woud be solved by leaving? so yet again you jump to the wrong conclusion. there is though a less discriminatory policy with immigration if you leave the eu as uk can then take as many people as they like from anywhere in the world, unlike now
2) yet more abuse and mindless jumping to conclusion. I was against devolution in wales. as for laws? lol you want me to go through the 400+ page constitution of laws, the largest ever written , 13 times the size of the us constitution? the waste the undemocratic unelected commission, the mass of amalgamated laws, history , culture of 30 ancient nations all mashed together under 1 umbrella? yeah sure thats going to work lol....If we had a govt or an opposition with common sense and work ethic then theyd go through every single law and decide which we want to keep, which we dont and which we cant. The mass web of endless new rules and regulations over all industries and sectors , ultimately damage sme's and make it unaffordable for them to compete. the laws in the transport industry are a classic example which I have documented some in this thread. try and read.
3) no it is you who are stupid Im afraid. Not everything happened at once, the eu as it is has been around for over 40 years. instead of making things easier its become harder. Germany did not originally open their borders to as many nations as UK. Uk opened to far more and population went up 9 million in 27 years. A fact Ive stated a fact youve dishinestly ignored. So brits got annoyed. meanwhile german population fell in this time, another fact youve dishonestly ignored. their baby rates fell, their immigration didnt cover the fall. so germany changed their minds and pushed for more open borders from all of the eu. especially so as it suited them and they needed to raise population , lower wages in an aging population. get it? or shall I draw you a picture with a crayon?
4) That is not entirely true. lots of nations have fined the massive corporations. america has the majority of largest corporate fines ever and they also charge higher corporate tax rates than all european nations.

your posts are uninformed based on pure hatred and emotion. typical remainer.
Click to expand...

1) Abuse? Yeah you deserved it. Swearing? Nah unless you think "why the hell" or calling you an idiot counts as swearing. I notice as well your utter failure to address the factual point raised in your desperation to play the victim. I take it then you can't support your claim of millions of illegals and that it can be dismissed as usual Brexit hyperbole. Right so we can conclude immigration played no role in your choice of leaving then? Well that leaves the sovereignty or 4th Reich beliefs, let's see what you went for...

2) Not jumping to conclusions, unless you haven't noticed it highlighted the hypocrisy of your position. So the UK needs sovereignty and independence from the EU the Welsh don't need it from the UK. Feel free to justify why one should be separated from a loose union and the other shouldn't from a tight union. Red herring, nobody expects you to go through 400 pages of laws but if it was an issue you should have had no problem whatsoever listing even a few. Also why are you comparing the entirety of EU law to a single part of US law...? The 2 were formed under completely different circumstances with different aims. If you took total US law covering the same areas it would easily match the EU constitution. Also you don't seem to know what the EU Constitution was, it was consolidating the TREATIES signed between the various EU nations as how they function in a group into a single document and actually cut down on the paperwork. Please tell me you at least knew that EU law gets passed into national law via a series of treaties the nations have signed with each other and the EU and that no EU law is valid in any EU nation until it is passed through said nations legislature? Oh you mean you didn't know that? Well colour me surprised... I guess you also obviously knew that, as an transnational entity with no actual sovereignty ALL EU actions are done via treaty with the sovereign member nations, the most obvious being the TREATY of Lisbon. Forgot about that little detail except when whining about it? Yeah thought so. The EU Constitution is the amalgamation of those treaties, it is NOT the supreme law of the land like the US Constitution. Seriously DO YOUR HOMEWORK!

3) Really? Your best response is "No, U!"? The EU has not been around for 40 years as it is at all. The EU as a political entity was formed with the ratification of the Maastricht treaty in 1997 and as it's modern form as a single legal entity with the passing of the Lisbon treaty. Not sure how strong your maths is but neither of those are 40 years ago. Also you're trying to claim that things happened over many years as your best defence for the fact you simply ****** up and contradicted yourself? Forgive me if I don't find that the slightest bit convincing, given your track record of posting complete nonsense and repeatedly resorting to hyperbole to cover your ignorance and mistakes. Also you are talking complete crap about Germany changing the rules on immigration. The rules allowing free movement of people were passed before Germany even unified and the reason Germany started taking in more immigrants recently is because the delay period that was allowed on immigration when new members join ran out. Germany used the delay period to not take in more immigrants, we didn't. Again DO YOUR HOMEWORK. You are really making yourself look like a right *** here.

4) Where did I say other nations don't do it? I said WE (Britain in case you haven't worked it out) don't do it. You know why larger nations fine large companies? Because they are too large for a company to threaten.

As usual your post is filled with hyperbole, outright lies, wild speculation and a desperation to foster a victim complex. Stop being a ***.
 
Beckett amendment fails... By 3

That's if the UK is seven days away from leaving without a deal, the government must move a motion within two sitting days (or recall Parliament) to vote on whether to go ahead with no-deal or request an extension "to give time for Parliament to determine a different approach".
 
May now shipping Tories against her own motion now it's been ammended... Again.
I'm not actually sure what the actual motion is
5fb41795-4d7c-4357-9c22-cc632482da16.png
 
My understanding is it's a ******** motion. Ie it actually says nothing of note but is therefore an amenadble motion to allow MPs to vote on those amendments.
 
That would explain my confusion.
I thought it might have been indicative voting on Wednesday, but under May's control (so she decides what options, and what process is used). But it's... confusing.

ETA, looks like you're right, original motions was "The House has considered the Prime Minister's update [on Brexit negotiations]"
What passed was "the House has considered the Prime Minister's update and has decided to hold a series of indicative votes"
The Theresa-controlled indicative votes just have been a sop she was offering to keep Tories from supporting Letwin.
 
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ragerancher said:
1) Abuse? Yeah you deserved it. Swearing? Nah unless you think "why the hell" or calling you an idiot counts as swearing. I notice as well your utter failure to address the factual point raised in your desperation to play the victim. I take it then you can't support your claim of millions of illegals and that it can be dismissed as usual Brexit hyperbole. Right so we can conclude immigration played no role in your choice of leaving then? Well that leaves the sovereignty or 4th Reich beliefs, let's see what you went for...

2) Not jumping to conclusions, unless you haven't noticed it highlighted the hypocrisy of your position. So the UK needs sovereignty and independence from the EU the Welsh don't need it from the UK. Feel free to justify why one should be separated from a loose union and the other shouldn't from a tight union. Red herring, nobody expects you to go through 400 pages of laws but if it was an issue you should have had no problem whatsoever listing even a few. Also why are you comparing the entirety of EU law to a single part of US law...? The 2 were formed under completely different circumstances with different aims. If you took total US law covering the same areas it would easily match the EU constitution. Also you don't seem to know what the EU Constitution was, it was consolidating the TREATIES signed between the various EU nations as how they function in a group into a single document and actually cut down on the paperwork. Please tell me you at least knew that EU law gets passed into national law via a series of treaties the nations have signed with each other and the EU and that no EU law is valid in any EU nation until it is passed through said nations legislature? Oh you mean you didn't know that? Well colour me surprised... I guess you also obviously knew that, as an transnational entity with no actual sovereignty ALL EU actions are done via treaty with the sovereign member nations, the most obvious being the TREATY of Lisbon. Forgot about that little detail except when whining about it? Yeah thought so. The EU Constitution is the amalgamation of those treaties, it is NOT the supreme law of the land like the US Constitution. Seriously DO YOUR HOMEWORK!

3) Really? Your best response is "No, U!"? The EU has not been around for 40 years as it is at all. The EU as a political entity was formed with the ratification of the Maastricht treaty in 1997 and as it's modern form as a single legal entity with the passing of the Lisbon treaty. Not sure how strong your maths is but neither of those are 40 years ago. Also you're trying to claim that things happened over many years as your best defence for the fact you simply ****** up and contradicted yourself? Forgive me if I don't find that the slightest bit convincing, given your track record of posting complete nonsense and repeatedly resorting to hyperbole to cover your ignorance and mistakes. Also you are talking complete crap about Germany changing the rules on immigration. The rules allowing free movement of people were passed before Germany even unified and the reason Germany started taking in more immigrants recently is because the delay period that was allowed on immigration when new members join ran out. Germany used the delay period to not take in more immigrants, we didn't. Again DO YOUR HOMEWORK. You are really making yourself look like a right *** here.

4) Where did I say other nations don't do it? I said WE (Britain in case you haven't worked it out) don't do it. You know why larger nations fine large companies? Because they are too large for a company to threaten.

As usual your post is filled with hyperbole, outright lies, wild speculation and a desperation to foster a victim complex. Stop being a ***.
Click to expand...

youre an embarassment arent you ...name calling third reich references complete dishonesty throughout too

2) youre comparing apples with oranges wales and englands union goes back to the 13th century and the carta yet you think that union of neighbours over 700 years is identical to merging with 30 nations 1000s of miles away with no 700 years of shared union, laws, customs, culture, currency , etc etc your moral equivalence is complete and utter nonsense. ooooh and caps lock how impressive. you know that there have been treaties all the way back to rome and your point is? nothing....the project came off the rails, nations went bust, the powerful took too much control, governments were replaced by the EU. soveeignty was lost as was the smaller nations ability to react to economic collapse

3) eec eu maastricht have you little play on words its all leading in the same direction....one massive superstate controling our affairs and effectively over-bureaucratizing individuals and small medium businesses out of existence

4) pretty sure you said the biggest corporate fines were handed out by the EU, they werent they were handed out by america
america also pays higher corporate taxes. the eu shamelessly lowers them but allows endless tax havens across european territories.
they also did so very little about chinese dumping steel. In fact they pretty much outlawed nationalising steel or any industry and illegaised subsidisation. this is one of corbyns core policies to national steel , utiities, trains etc yet the EU outlaws it, yet he has still said in interviews he wants to remain in the eu
 
Reading this morning that JRM and BoJo will back May's deal on condition that she quits, paving the way for them to push BoJo for the top job.

I am truly staggered that Brexit is so blatantly being used as a vehicle for politicians to further their own careers and yet we hear phrases like 'national interest' and 'history will judge us if we don't honour the result of the referendum'. This is no different to the Americans using WMD as a ruse to gain access to Iraq's oil. It's nothing short of scandalous.
 
The Oggmonster said:
This is no different to the Americans using WMD as a ruse to gain access to Iraq's oil. It's nothing short of scandalous.
Click to expand...
That is honestly quite a subjective opinion although BoJo's political ambitions have never been that subjective.

It doesn't matter if they back it the DUP is still a major stumbling block.
 
ncurd said:
That is honestly quite a subjective opinion although BoJo's political ambitions have never been that subjective.

It doesn't matter if they back it the DUP is still a major stumbling block.
Click to expand...

It's been widely reported that he is a remainer at heart (unsurprisingly as a former MoL) but jumped to leave campaign as it was an opportunity to take over from Cameron. I can't stand politicians who abandon their principles in this way purely for personal gain.
 
JRM just came out for May's deal saying its that or no Brexit
 
I think she still needs the DUP to get MV3 over the line and they don't look like they're budging. There will be some Labour Brexiteers who will back the deal but also some Tory Remainers like Dominic Grieve who will reject it.
 
ncurd said:
JRM just came out for May's deal saying its that or no Brexit
Click to expand...

Which will encourage any remainers within the Tory Party to not vote for it.

Doesn't make MV3 winnable - if it ever came to pass.

Especially if indicative voting shows a strong bias in parliament to a much softer Brexit - in which case many MPs that would otherwise vote for the deal may feel empowered to try and deliver the alternative choice.
 
I have two theories on JRM's change of heart.

1. Either May threatened him and other Brexiteers during their visit to Chequers on Sunday that it was her deal or No Brexit and that she would revoke Article 50 as her final act as PM. Seems strange that he changed his mind a little over one day after the Chequers visit. Or...

2. He knows her deal will never win (due to the DUP digigng their heels in) and is now backing it at the last minute to cover his arse and so that nobody can accuse him of throwing away the only hope of Brexit. Either way he is a major league twat.

This tweet is pure gold.

https://twitter.com/AngusMacNeilSNP/status/1110514899879452678
 
All these Tory MPs having a go at Letwin by joking he's PM now.

Don't they know that actually sounds like a good idea to most right now?
 
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