A Political Thread

[ncurd]

For all the talk of a second referendum, it only goes to show that Remain winning is no foregone conclusion. It's still very tight.

I don't think any remainer calling for a second referendum thinks it will be an easy fight. Its the only fight they have so they'll try it.

 

[ncurd]

Duck

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-48443454

 

[Which Tyler]

For all the talk of a second referendum, it only goes to show that Remain winning is no foregone conclusion. It's still very tight.

Absolutely; and it always has been.
Personally, I support it because it's the right thing to do; not because I think my "side" has a god chance of winning. It's why I support a 2nd vote way ahead of revoking, even though revoke is what I want to actually happen.


In other news: Tory leadership just hotted up - this was always a possibility, but...
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/boris-johnson-trial-brexit-court-lying-prosecution-nhs-vote-leave-a8934451.html

Boris Johnson is to go on trial for allegedly "lying and misleading the British public" about the consequences of Brexit.

A judge summonsed the Conservative MP to appear in court after a man brought a private prosecution over claims that the cost of EU membership was £350m a week.

District Judge Margot Coleman threw out arguments by Mr Johnson's lawyers that the case was a "vexatious" attempt to undermine the result of the 2016 referendum.

A written judgment handed down on Wednesday said: "Having considered all the relevant factors I am satisfied that this is a proper case to issue the summons as requested for the three offences as drafted.

"The charges are indictable only. This means the proposed defendant will be required to attend this court for a preliminary hearing, and the case will then be sent to the crown court for trial."

 

[Which Tyler]

Duck

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-48443454

Of course they'd say that - their job is to instigate a war; they're hardly going to come out and say "this looks like it might have been a rerun of the Gulg of Tonkin"
Like Hans Blix - they're there to provide legitimacy for what's about to come, not to actually look too hard (even though Blix failed that brief).


TBH - I've no clue whatsoever, but all the sabre rattling is coming from one side; and a president who's desperate for anything to distract his domestic audience, and has been looking to have a war started late 2019 for the last 2 years - just a matter of whether it was going to be Iran, Venezuela or N Korea.

 

[General Melchett]

I don't think any remainer calling for a second referendum thinks it will be an easy fight. Its the only fight they have so they'll try it.

I think most Remainers take the view that we have more information now and so people will be able to make a more informed choice unlike last time when there were so many unknowns - we had Project Fear v Leave liars and a flawed referendum question/process.

 

[General Melchett]

Absolutely; and it always has been.
Personally, I support it because it's the right thing to do; not because I think my "side" has a god chance of winning. It's why I support a 2nd vote way ahead of revoking, even though revoke is what I want to actually happen.


In other news: Tory leadership just hotted up - this was always a possibility, but...
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...FNVA0uMTZE8J3WSuAnfxmOhPq3DozMVUQmkV2VJNgXdqY

Yeah we have more info now and it only goes to highlight that people voted blind in a one stage referendum which was fundamentally flawed. Had it been planned properly it should have been a two stage process.

You do have to wonder about the timing of this Boris thing. Seems that operation stop Boris is in full swing.

 

[Which Tyler]

I think most Remainers take the view that we have more information now and so people will be able to make a more informed choice unlike last time when there were so many unknowns - we had Project Fear v Leave liars and a flawed referendum question/process.

Unfortunately, innate cognitive dissonance does mean that most people won't change their minds in the face of new evidence; and if anything, the algorythms used to cheat the system through social media to spread the misinformation have merely improved, with no real attempts to close them down.

You do have to wonder about the timing of this Boris thing. Seems that operation stop Boris is in full swing.

Nah - this has been bubbling away since September, with court dates for hearings set back in March IIRC - any "interest" in the timing is down to Theresa

 

[General Melchett]

Of course they'd say that - their job is to instigate a war; they're hardly going to come out and say "this looks like it might have been a rerun of the Gulg of Tonkin"
Like Hans Blix - they're there to provide legitimacy for what's about to come, not to actually look too hard (even though Blix failed that brief).


TBH - I've no clue whatsoever, but all the sabre rattling is coming from one side; and a president who's desperate for anything to distract his domestic audience, and has been looking to have a war started late 2019 for the last 2 years - just a matter of whether it was going to be Iran, Venezuela or N Korea.

Iran have been on their hit list for years. There was talk about a war towards of end of George W Bush's time as President but it died off when Obama took office. It's absolutely shocking that they can start conflict in oil rich countries based on not very much. Netanyahu hates Iran and a republican administration full of hawks in power the same time as him is the perfect storm.

 

[McTallshort]

Duck

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-48443454

Not sure, Trump has a habit of ratcheting up the pressure but avoiding actually going to war unlike his two predecessors. Also if Clinton had gotten in a war with Iran would already be either underway or over now.

There are many many things you can level at Trump but is yet to start a war like Bush did in Iraq or start offensive military action like Obama did in Syria and Libya.

 

[ncurd]

Can't say I'm convinced by the assertion we'd be at war with Iran if Clinton were in charge considering this core pieve of Obama era work which Trump squished in his early days.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Comprehensive_Plan_of_Action

 

[McTallshort]

Can't say I'm convinced by the assertion we'd be at war with Iran if Clinton were in charge considering this core pieve of Obama era work which Trump squished in his early days.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Comprehensive_Plan_of_Action

Clinton and Obama were very different people. Obama accepted that you had to intervene now and again (although he was outmanoeuvred in Syria by Putin) were as Hilary was angling for a full blown confrontation with Iran. Would it have happened had she got to power? very possibly. She was certainly more hawkish in public than Trump who spoke out against the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan (which he did this for his own ends).

 

[General Melchett]

Trump is a celebrity / businessman and not a career politician. I personally don't think he himself has much of an agenda when it comes to starting wars with the likes of Iran. He is merely the spokesperson for the Republican hawks like Bolton, Paul Ryan and the other hawks in the Pentagon/CIA who are probably the ones with the war agenda.

Economic growth, trade wars, trade deals, getting other NATO members to up their financial contribution is probably more Trump's bread and butter.

 

[Which Tyler]

Anyone else just waiting for Larry Mouser to announce his leadership bid?
TBH, I've probably more faith in him than any of the other candidates.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Anyone else just waiting for Larry Mouser to announce his leadership bid?
TBH, I've probably more faith in him than any of the other candidates.

I had to look who that was up... **** you!!

 

[General Melchett]

Besides Rory Stewart, the only senior Tory politician I can think of who is acting and speaking in the national interest, as opposed to trying to further their own career/agenda or sucking up to certain factions of the party is Box Office Phil or Spreadsheet Phil as he's also known.

I'm sure they'll start dropping like flies and start endorsing the front runners (with a view to landing a plum job) after the first vote when they realise they have no chance.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

In another case of reality being so stupid the Onion doesn't have enough material to beat it, the US department of energy have called natural gas exports "molecules of freedom" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-48454674

Only in America, the level of brainwashing people in the country get into thinking they have some unique monopoly on freedom is laughable. Also Trump being his usual self in assuming that everyone is as petty, child like and pathetic as him by once again hurling a load of personal accusations at Mueller https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-48461356

It's staggering that despite the Trump administration failing to get through a single week without some sort of incident, Trump screwing over those who voted for him, the constant bullshit, the easily proven lies, the petulant behaviour, the whole lot, a fair chunk of people still support him. To think people wonder how dictators take over, it's because every country has a sizeable minority of absolute dumbfucks who will elect the most belligerent leader they can find and there is an inverse correlation between how poorly suited to the job they are and the level of support among that segment of the population.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Oh and apparently it was suggested that a US navy ship called the McCain was supposed to leave port in Japan so it wouldn't be there when Trump arrived (it didn't leave) and the sailors of that ship (who all had badges with McCain on it) were turned away from events where Trump was present. Not sure if this one is necessarily true but amazing how I think it's more likely it is true than isn't.

This administration is a ******* disgrace

 

[General Melchett]

The more I hear Esther McVey speak the more I'm convinced she'll get the least amount of votes and be eliminated after the first round. As far as Tory leadership/next PM candidates go she is truly horrendous.

 

[General Melchett]

Oh and apparently it was suggested that a US navy ship called the McCain was supposed to leave port in Japan so it wouldn't be there when Trump arrived (it didn't leave) and the sailors of that ship (who all had badges with McCain on it) were turned away from events where Trump was present. Not sure if this one is necessarily true but amazing how I think it's more likely it is true than isn't.

This administration is a ******* disgrace

I could well believe Trump insisted on that - his inner spoilt manchild coming to the fore once again.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Did I read correctly that Rory Stewart admitted smoking Opium in Iran? How's that going to affect his already slim leadership Chances.

The more I hear Esther McVey speak the more I'm convinced she'll get the least amount of votes and be eliminated after the first round. As far as Tory leadership/next PM candidates go she is truly horrendous.

I also think May has harmed the chances of the women standing and maybe a woman becoming PM for a long time.