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Accepting defeat.

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TheBokke

Guest
http://www.rugbyheaven.com.au/news/news/th...1695874557.html



This is quiet sad!!! As it is coming from the the people who should be setting the example. Instead of congratulating the French they keep on blaming the ref. Accept defeat and learn form it as it makes you stronger, sometimes I think it is the root of the problem for the kiwi's in the world cup.



If they actually accepted defeat and not blame others for their losses they would have corrected the problems and solved them. According to the leaders in the game they have no problems as it is someone else who has the problem.



The French were better simple!! There are always small decisions that influence big games no matter which sport.



First Suzie and now the the Ref!! I hope they accept defeat this time and then they won't have to blame anyone in 2011 as they will win it.
 
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nam97

Guest
http://www.rugbyheaven.com.au/news/news/th...1695874557.html



This is quiet sad!!! As it is coming from the the people who should be setting the example. Instead of congratulating the French they keep on blaming the ref. Accept defeat and learn form it as it makes you stronger, sometimes I think it is the root of the problem for the kiwi's in the world cup.



If they actually accepted defeat and not blame others for their losses they would have corrected the problems and solved them. According to the leaders in the game they have no problems as it is someone else who has the problem.



The French were better simple!! There are always small decisions that influence big games no matter which sport.



First Suzie and now the the Ref!! I hope they accept defeat this time and then they won't have to blame anyone in 2011 as they will win it.
[/b]

Yes, it's very annoying on how it just drags on forever here. Seriously, this will be frontline news right up until the All Blacks season kicks off next year in terms of the media and public. Rugby has really gotten out of hand here, however dumb that may sound, we are just too stubborn and too in love with our All Blacks to accept and move on.

This time I think it will be different though, most of us now get the point the RWC is not won on reputation alone, and if that were the case we would be the only team to ever have lifted it. The fact is you have to play a RWC like any other game and we should win because we do this the majority of the time.

Overall, as a Rugby mad country we need to grow up and get our heads out of our arses. Stop blaming the ref (who still had an unforgivable performance), because in similar games with the same calls being made against us we have won and you'll hear no complaints from the NZ public. We were beaten by a better team on the day and that's enough to sink a nation's hope down the shitter. Move on I say and roll on 2011 (I hope the time comes quickly).
 
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polonius

Guest
Deary, deary me ... if this is the official response of the NZRU then I very much hope the IRB respond by taking the tournament in 2011 away from them.
 
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FerraraZ

Guest
^^^ Thats a little too harsh dont you think? I completely agree that this statement is stupid, I mean with 70 percent of ball posession they shouldn't have even been worried about giving up one try.
 
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Triniquint

Guest
http://www.rugbyheaven.com.au/news/news/th...1695874557.html



This is quiet sad!!! As it is coming from the the people who should be setting the example. Instead of congratulating the French they keep on blaming the ref. Accept defeat and learn form it as it makes you stronger, sometimes I think it is the root of the problem for the kiwi's in the world cup.



If they actually accepted defeat and not blame others for their losses they would have corrected the problems and solved them. According to the leaders in the game they have no problems as it is someone else who has the problem.



The French were better simple!! There are always small decisions that influence big games no matter which sport.



First Suzie and now the the Ref!! I hope they accept defeat this time and then they won't have to blame anyone in 2011 as they will win it. [/b]



Daily Telegraph today:



All Blacks choke on arrogance


By Brendan Gallagher in Paris



Last Updated: 12:48am BST 09/10/2007



Where did it all go wrong? And even more importantly, why does it always go wrong? Those were the questions being asked by the shell-shocked, angry New Zealand rugby public yesterday as their beaten team headed home yet again without the World Cup, or even a sniff of it. Their fall from grace could not be more painful.



How can it be that the self-styled greatest rugby side on earth, championed by Adidas as the template for teamwork and success across the sporting world, yet again failed to deliver when it counted? No longer can they dismiss the 'choker' taunts – time after time the All Blacks redefine the term at World Cups.





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Only once have New Zealand won the World Cup and that was when they hosted the inaugural competition in 1987, a tournament in which they were effectively the only professional team. Most of the other 'amateurs' pitched up for an end-of-season jolly and were not entirely sober for the duration.



If New Zealand are ever to regain the trophy which they believe is their birthright, they have got to get over themselves and take a long look at the way the rest of the rugby world perceives them. It will hurt, but the reward could be the Webb Ellis Cup.



The All Blacks are day in, day out probably the world's best rugby players but they have a fatal character trait – a pure, unattractive arrogance that trips them up every time. Occasionally some PR guru encourages them to show their nicer side, and in fairness the class of 2007 have tried hard, but it rarely lasts long and their administrators do them no favours.



To win sport's biggest prizes you have to absorb and learn, not lecture and preach. You must be humble. The All Blacks have never been humble, it is not in their DNA. They are told they are special from the moment they first pull on the famous shirt and they expect special treatment from the rest of the world at all times. The All Blacks ethos is their Achilles heel.



They are huge fish in a minute pool and everything they do or say goes unquestioned. If Graham Henry and the New Zealand Rugby Union want unilaterally to rip up the Super 14 and take their top 22 players out of the competition for special fitness training for two months, they plough right on ahead. If you happen to be Sky television, or the Australian and South African rugby unions, it is just tough. The All Blacks have spoken.



It was that arrogance and insularity that made them blindly defend Tana Umaga and Keven Mealamu when they nearly maimed Lions captain Brian O'Driscoll. They would have done the New Zealand game a much bigger service by banning the duo for two months apiece. Dream on.



There is extraordinary arrogance and pettiness over their commercially-driven haka, as though they were the only nation on earth allowed to express their individuality. So, too, the arrogant assumption that they always know better than the law-makers and referees. Unbelievable. Arm yourself with a law book guys, take an honest look at the match tapes and see just how much the All Blacks get away with.



They raid the Pacific to replenish their player stock, yet have New Zealand ever played a full international at Apia against Samoa by way of encouragement or even, perversely, a thank you? I think not. The truth is New Zealand are terrified that Samoa, Fiji and Tonga will get their act together and become competitive international teams who can hang on to their star players. On the evidence of France 2007, their worst nightmares could soon come true.



New Zealanders slag off the Six Nations incessantly but, bless them, miss the point entirely. Yes, the Tri-Nations is inherently more athletic and skilful, and produces some very watchable rugby, but the Six Nations is played on an epic scale, in giant stadiums packed with up to 80,000 mad, half-drunk partisans.

It embraces six rugby cultures, differing stadiums, climates and playing standards. The Six Nations breeds hard-nosed sporting brutes who regularly quarry out winning performances and learn how to win 'ugly'. Australia, with a wider sporting culture than New Zealand, also know how to win ugly, which is why they have taken two World Cups. In contrast when the lights go down and it comes to Showtime, New Zealand suffer horribly from stage fright.



It is their isolation – mental as much as geographical – that makes New Zealand so vulnerable. If they came down off Mount Olympus and joined us rugby serfs more often they would get everything in better perspective. And the World Cup would almost certainly be their reward.



END



Any comments? It certainly explains their attitude.



Is there some reason why, when I paste articles into the forum, they have big spaces between the paragraphs which I haven't originally put in?
 
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Klarkash-ton

Guest
I'm sorry Triniquint, but that article is just as big an example of ignorance as most of the ignorant rants about the ref from irate kiwi fans in the last couple of days.

The ill-informed comments about 'raiding the Pacific to replenish the playing stock': www.planetrugby.com did an analysis a while back and found that there were more NZ born players in the Samoan team than Samoan-born). Jonah Lomu was regularly referred to as Tongan despite being born in Auckland. Joe Rokocoko WAS born in Fiji, and cleverly spotted by NZ talent scouts at the age of 4, and imported to NZ aged 5...

Not sure what he is trying to say that NZ were the 'only professional team' in the first World Cup. If he is implying they were paid to play and no one else was then he is worse than uninformed, he is delusional.

He repeats the choker tag, which while amusing in the forums, is just insulting in a piece of journalism. Not to NZ, but to the teams that beat them. It is tantamount to saying France's uncompromising, smothering, 178 tackle defence did not win the game on Saturday. Australia's grit and streetwise ability did not win in 2003. France's inspired running, flair, and irrepressible spirit did not win in 99. South Africa and Australia were obviously rubbish in 95 and 91 respectively and should be seen as lucky winners...

Pettiness over the Haka? We are all free to adopt a indigenous challenge if we want to. The Samoans, Tongans and I believe Fiji all have. Australia actually performed some Aboriginal dance before a couple of test matches, before the players rebelled and said they felt silly.

another quote: 'The Six Nations breeds hard-nosed sporting brutes who regularly quarry out winning performances and learn how to win 'ugly'. Fabulous, that's what we are trying to achieve, ugly rugby. He also praises Australia for being able to win 'ugly'. I thought they lost on the weekend too? Obviously not a great performance by England, pity Australia choked.

Why didn't he write this article last week? Because like the rest of the world he thought it would be an Aus/NZ semi-final this week. Now he is safe to vent his irrational bias, because he can point and say 'ha, ha you lost, you're crap'. Such a brave chap. And the English papers love sticking the boot in after the fact. We see them do it to our own players on a regular basis, because despite being hard-nosed sporting brutes who regularly quarry out winning performances and learn how to win 'ugly' they have lost on a painfully regular basis these last four years.

In fact the hard-nosed, win ugly chaps have only down it once so far, the same number as NZ if I recall. That's all of the 6N teams I mean. Hopefully France or England can do it again, but unfortunately in the final only one team can choke... oops I mean win.
 
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polonius

Guest
^^^ Thats a little too harsh dont you think? I completely agree that this statement is stupid, I mean with 70 percent of ball posession they shouldn't have even been worried about giving up one try.
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Too harsh? Perhaps, but one of rugby great strengths is the way the referee is respected; an attitude rarely shown in other sports. If, therefore, the Chairman of the Official Union of one of the world's great rugby powers (who I believe happens to be a former captain of his national side) comes out with this sort of vehemence against a referee then the Rugby authorities should come down on him (and the post he holds) like a ton of bricks.

Such disrespect cannot be allowed to go unchallenged.
 
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Klarkash-ton

Guest
<div class='quotemain'>
^^^ Thats a little too harsh dont you think? I completely agree that this statement is stupid, I mean with 70 percent of ball posession they shouldn't have even been worried about giving up one try.
[/b]

Too harsh? Perhaps, but one of rugby great strengths is the way the referee is respected; an attitude rarely shown in other sports. If, therefore, the Chairman of the Official Union of one of the world's great rugby powers (who I believe happens to be a former captain of his national side) comes out with this sort of vehemence against a referee then the Rugby authorities should come down on him (and the post he holds) like a ton of bricks.

Such disrespect cannot be allowed to go unchallenged.
[/b][/quote]

yes. but it's baffling. Usually when you start to look closely at refs decisions 9 times out of 10 the ref is right. Obvious things like forward passes excepted, and it's not like there were dozens of them. I am disappointed with the NZRFU, even if they prove themselves right they lose.
 
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C A Iversen

Guest
It's not so bloody simple. Some people are coming down on the ref, some people are saying the AB's lost it fair and square and to get over it. Guess what?

It's possible for both to be right. The All Blacks WERE outplayed by a far more committed and disciplined french team. Waynes Barnes DID have a shocker of a game.

Both need to be addressed by the respective parties.

Some people are using this as a chance to kick NZ. You guys ALSO need to get over it.

Jock Hobbs is a very astute and perceptive man in every respect. I have no doubt that he also believes that there was a lot more to the quarter-final loss than just Wayne Barnes.
 
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diehardkiwi07

Guest
Read this From Naas Botha

Some referees in the rugby World Cup tournament in France are "bad, very bad," says former Springbok captain Naas Botha.

A number of the decisions during this year's tournament had been "pathetic and shocking" and one mistake cost the All Black coach his job, Botha said on Tuesday.

He singled out the "blatant forward pass" during the quarter-final match between France and New Zealand, saying the referee and touch judges either missed it or ignored it.

The pass enabled France to score a try, win the match 20-18 and eliminate the tournament favourites.

Botha, a respected television commentator after an outstanding career as Northern Transvaal and South African flyhalf, said the mistake by English referee Wayne Barnes had already cost All Black coach Graham Henry his job.

"New Zealand could and should have won the match. They deserved to win, even though they did not play their usual brand of brilliant rugby.

"The fact is that a forward pass has destroyed Henry. And one should also think of the players. Years of preparation and hard work were destroyed in the blink of an eye because a referee and two touch judges did not keep their eyes open," Botha said.

COULD SEE WITH THE NAKED EYE

He was also furious because "South Africa could have easily been in the same situation as New Zealand because of a pathetic referee.

"One could see with the naked eye that the pass that so nearly gave Fiji a try at a critical stage of the match against the Springboks was forward.

"Had it not been for JP Pietersen's tackle that prevented Fiji from scoring in the corner South Africa might also not have reached the semifinals.

"And what about the last few minutes of that match when the Springboks won a scrum near Fiji's try-line? They could have scored if at least two of Fiji's players did not break away, completely illegally, before the ball had emerged.

"The referee was standing right in front of the two culprits but he did nothing. He should have awarded a penalty try to South Africa.

"It is sad that the integrity of the World Cup tournament has been compromised by referees such as these.

"And nobody must mention "human errors". A referee in a tournament of this nature should watch what is happening.

"The touch judges must also watch what is happening. And if there is any doubt, there is technology that they can call upon.

"I'm sorry, I don't buy it. It stinks," Botha said.
 
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YKNGR

Guest
I'd just like to say congratulations for the most pathetic win to France.
Sure they deserved a win for the absolute defence, but its the most disgusting win you can ever have. I dont see why the coaches were happy about winning from a lucky ref misjudge.

I dont even know why Wayne Barnz hasnt even talked to the new zealand reporters. I want to hear what he has to say instead of the bloody drop nut IRB referee CEOS who is too nervous to even go on TV and drops his nuts 3minute straight with New Zealand not understanding a word. And why doesnt a touch judge even know how to do his job? I have to admit, the referees i have been seeing in this tournament is absolutely crap. I even saw the New Zealand young referee and he wasnt great either, to be honest I've seen better in my U56 secondary college referees do better than them.

I admit defeat. at the end of the day we lost. But that referee has to go...Or do we all agree that Wayne Barns should referee our Finals too?
 
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TheBokke

Guest
I'd just like to say congratulations for the most pathetic win to France.
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Wow the humility!!! Maybe everyone in NZ thinks that but the rest of the world don't. Congrats on being such a good sport.
 
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Klarkash-ton

Guest
I'd just like to say congratulations for the most pathetic win to France.
Sure they deserved a win for the absolute defence, but its the most disgusting win you can ever have. I dont see why the coaches were happy about winning from a lucky ref misjudge.

I dont even know why Wayne Barnz hasnt even talked to the new zealand reporters. I want to hear what he has to say instead of the bloody drop nut IRB referee CEOS who is too nervous to even go on TV and drops his nuts 3minute straight with New Zealand not understanding a word. And why doesnt a touch judge even know how to do his job? I have to admit, the referees i have been seeing in this tournament is absolutely crap. I even saw the New Zealand young referee and he wasnt great either, to be honest I've seen better in my U56 secondary college referees do better than them.

I admit defeat. at the end of the day we lost. But that referee has to go...Or do we all agree that Wayne Barns should referee our Finals too?
[/b]

well, this sums it up. 'pathetic win to France'? There was nothing pathetic about France in the quarter final. They played with heart, passion, and pride. They made 178 tackles! They played to the ref, like good teams should. have a beef with the ref if you must, but don't blame the french team!
 
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C A Iversen

Guest
That comment from the YKNGR above is not the same as every other NZ'er and I would like to know why we all get judged by individual posts?

This issue is not black and white and there are a hundred shades of grey. If TheBokke is going to put YKNGR's opinion down for all NZ'ers, then I hope for his sake the same situation happens with Argentina.

Oddly though I would not wish that on the rest of South Africa.

For goodness sake lets treat individual opinions as exactly that!
 
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Brodizzle

Guest
That comment from the YKNGR above is not the same as every other NZ'er and I would like to know why we all get judged by individual posts?
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The thing is people will believe what they want to believe, and the fact is most people want to paint Aussies and Kiwi's as arrogant whingers, so any proof from individual members they will take as fact and the posts contrary to that view will be disregarded...
 
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diehardkiwi07

Guest
Yes the French played well and they deserved there win as we have all said congrats to them
*Do they expect us to get on our knee's???*.
The point is as spectacular as the 178 tackles were made by the French, Just remember that Luke McAllister did punch holes in the French back line also take into consideration the French scrum got absolutly pumbled. All Blacks may not be that good in some peoples eyes as seen on these forums, but let me tell you they sure as hell showed England management where the to look for French weakness
 
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C A Iversen

Guest
True. The way it's being painted, NZ or Australia have no leg to stand on.

I mean some of us are even saying:

France played an unbelievably good defensive game.
France deserved a win.
NZ played poorly.
Wayne Barnes had a shocker.
Australia played badly
England played well.
Australia when in usual form would win 7/10 games against England.


It is possible for all the above to be true.
 
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