African Rugby (General Tier 2 & 3)

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

I couldn't see a thread to post about the African Gold Cup which started today so I figured I'd post this and open it to encompass general african rugby issues that anyone might want to post about.

The African Gold Cup appears to be like an African version of the Rugby Europe Championship, including promotion and relegation for the worst team. Namibia are the reigning champions and in my ignorance I would have assumed they would be firm favourites this year, but Kenya recently ran Germany very close in Nairobi (last minute drop goal gave Germany victory), and today Kenya only just snatched a last minute draw against Uganda (in Kenya, a great match and atmosphere). Zimbabwe (who last year ran Russia close) needed a couple of late scores to win in Senegal today. Therefore, the sides in this competition may be broadly comparable in quality to the likes of Belgium, Portugal or Netherlands in Europe, Chile, Brazil and Paraguay in the Americas Rugby Championships and Hong Kong & Korea in Asia.

First impressions are that the rugby lacks control at the set piece but makes up for it with athleticism, offloading and also some quality kicking from the tee.

The draw is as follows.

24/06: Kenya v Uganda in Nairobi: Senegal v Zimbabwe in Dakar
01/07: Tunisia v Namibia in Monastir; Senegal v Uganda in Dakar
08/07: Kenya v Tunisia in Nairobi: Namibia v Senegal in Windhoek
16/07: Kenya v Senegal in Nairobi: Uganda v Tunisia in Kampala; Namibia v Zimbabwe in Windhoek
22/07: Uganda v Namibia in Kampala; Zimbabwe v Kenya in Bulawayo
29/07: Namibia v Kenya in Windhoek; Zimbabwe v Tunisia in Harare
05/08: Uganda v Zimbabwe in Kampala; Tunisia v Senegal in Monastir

For the first round there were pretty good quality live streams available in English and when I become aware of these I'll post them here incase anyone is interested. Apparently it will be next years tournament only which will decide the Africa 1 qualifier for the RWC in Group B (All Blacks, South Africa, Italy & repechage qualifier).

I apologise if anything above is not accurate. It'd be fair to say I'm no expert in African rugby!

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Kenya vs Uganda (full game, great contest)

https://www.facebook.com/Kwese.ESPN/videos/vb.204486993372440/244423606045445/?type=2&theater


Senegal vs Zimbabwe (full game, very basic facilities!)

https://www.facebook.com/SenegalRugby/posts/10155707138303514

 

[Welshdragon2000]

Has anyone followed these games? Any 'players to watch' or any teams that have surprised anyone so far?

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Two weeks ago was horribly one sided losses for Tunisia and Senegal. This last weekend was a bit more competitive. Kenya still not hitting their stride (see link below) when playing Senegal and I think are at risk of finishing third if they don't up their game.



Zimbabwe apparently should have won in Namibia in a close contest I can't find highlights for. It looks like Uganda are the most improved side, but that it'll be Zimbabwe, Namibia or Kenya who will lift the ***le.

Tunisia are odds on to be relegated if they can't beat Senegal and will be replaced by the promoted Morocco next year, when the winner will qualify for the RWC i believe.

 

[Brigantine]

Next season the Gold Cup will only have 4 teams, and have a return leg.

So 2 teams get relegated, and Morocco doesn't get promoted - they just get a repechage play-off for the Africa 2 spot the same way Portugal does for Europe 2.

IIRC the Silver Cup next season will be split into 2 conferences of 3. Basically going back to the standard formula, 2017 was an exception.

 

[Welshdragon2000]

Thanks! Keep me posted gents!

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Next season the Gold Cup will only have 4 teams, and have a return leg.

So 2 teams get relegated, and Morocco doesn't get promoted - they just get a repechage play-off for the Africa 2 spot the same way Portugal does for Europe 2.

IIRC the Silver Cup next season will be split into 2 conferences of 3. Basically going back to the standard formula, 2017 was an exception.

There is contradictory information on the Gold Cup format next year. I previously saw a World Rugby post from a few weeks back where they insinuated it will still be 6 sides next year. I can try and fish it out if need be. I'm guessing that you will know more than me though, but I wasn't contradicted by a Ugandan.

 

[Brigantine]

Hmm... The most recent info from Rugby Africa that I could find suggests you're right.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Standings this morning are

Namibia 15
Kenya 12
Uganda 11
Zimbabwe 6 (only played two games)
Senegal 1
Tunisia 0

It could be the decisive day of the tournament today, with the big four facing off and in both cases the lower ranked side having home field advantage.

Uganda vs Nambia - 1130hrs GMT (so one hour from this post?) - (probably a step too far for Uganda, but they should score enough points to keep it interesting)

Zimbabwe vs Kenya - 1530hrs East African Time (GMT+3) - (really fancy Zimbabwe for this one given recent results)

These games should be broadcast on the Kwese sports facebook page. I'll try to get links and timings.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Seems to be a little confusion with timings

https://www.facebook.com/Kwese.ESPN...Mp8HtVz0SFhLyjpzi2oApQNHzT_mB_vB6vOrt2AOpy4m8

Uganda game at 1430hrs EAT (GMT+3)
Zimbabwe game at 1630hrs EAT (GMT+3)

 

[Brigantine]

This weekend is the effective final of the Gold Cup - Namibia (WRR 21, 60.72 RP) vs Kenya (WRR 25, 58.22 RP).

On paper Namibia has a 77% chance to win, and Kenya 23%. (Ignoring the possibility of a draw).

Whoever wins this match will:
A) be ranked higher in the WRR, (if Kenya wins by 15+, they will exactly swap ranks - Kenya to WRR 21 and Namibia to WRR 25)
B) get home advantage in the 2018 effective final (presuming the same format at 2017), and
C) be the favourite for RWC direct qualification.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

It seems many people had problems accessing the live streaming. I don't know if it was geolocked or what. I had to give up trying. Hopefully highlights will appear but that also seems a bit hit and miss.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Highlights:

Uganda vs Namibia



Zimbabwe vs Kenya

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Finally managed to track down the highlights of Nambia vs Zimbabwe from the previous round. Talk of all sorts of favouritism for Namibia but that doesn't come through to me on the highlights.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

The ***le decider at altitude in Windhoek, Namibia.



Zimbabwe should have won in Namibia then end up in a surprisingly competitive match at home to Tunisia (who had been thrashed by most teams in the competition). Incredible inconsistentcy.



Apparently Tunisia got their more experienced players back for this game. Their last match will be a relegation decider against Senegal in Tunisia next weekend. Last year the fixture ended in a horrific mass brawl, so fingers crossed "rugby values" save us from that!

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Highlights of the last round relegation decider between Tunisia and Senegal:



And a dead rubber between Uganda be Zimbabwe confirming Ugandan improvement.



Whilst I thought it would be good to see a South African reserve side in this competition (like the Argentines in the Americas Rugby Championship) the gulf here is far wider and so I don't think it would be all that productive for either SA or the Gold Cup. Perhaps a SA reserve side playing the winner of the Gold Cup would be a nice additional fixture in the calendar.

It is definitely one I'll keep an eye on next year with the RWC qualification implications as there is some genuine talent in some of the back play and in general it is quite competitive. Perhaps predictably the play is lacking in defensive formations and set piece, the two areas that would require the additional expenditure of specialised coaching (or a professional playing environment) to get right.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Very brief highlights of the Kenyan Simbas hosting a Currie Cup 1st Division match.

 

[saulan]

Very brief highlights of the Kenyan Simbas hosting a Currie Cup 1st Division match.

Nice. Glad to see there was a full stadium for that. Hopefully their continued participation in the competition can help build up a bit more of a rugby club culture within the country and further develop the game. (Although I'm pretty sure that statistic thrown out there was wrong. I think the Welwitschias were playing their home games in Windhoek, Namibia when they were in the tournament between '16-'17.

Unfortunately the first division is showing how large the gulf in club rugby is between the top nations and the developing ones. The winner of RESC is essentially playing in the third tier of South African rugby and seem to be in line quality wise there (a couple of cancelled games in the results, not sure what happened there for them) while the Zimbabwe and Kenya teams have been struggling in the division. Quite a bit of development needs to be done to get these countries up to Challenge Cup standards (something that has been touted quite a bit in the last week).

However, I would be super interested to see how the top MLR team would do against a Currie Cup Premier division team. I feel like after many attempts, they finally got a league going with consecutive years of momentum in the US.

 

[die_mole]

When I was in stellebosch back in 2018 we had an MLR ref visit for two weeks and he said that MLR was a similar level to WP super league A (what Maties and ikeys play in). I'm sure mlr has gotten better but I don't think it's improved that much.

From what I've seen of the first division on super sport's YouTube I think the top mlr teams would walk through but the bottoms sides don't have the players.

Premier Division Currie cup sides are way too organized and professional for MLR teams.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Nice. Glad to see there was a full stadium for that. Hopefully their continued participation in the competition can help build up a bit more of a rugby club culture within the country and further develop the game. (Although I'm pretty sure that statistic thrown out there was wrong. I think the Welwitschias were playing their home games in Windhoek, Namibia when they were in the tournament between '16-'17.

Unfortunately the first division is showing how large the gulf in club rugby is between the top nations and the developing ones. The winner of RESC is essentially playing in the third tier of South African rugby and seem to be in line quality wise there (a couple of cancelled games in the results, not sure what happened there for them) while the Zimbabwe and Kenya teams have been struggling in the division. Quite a bit of development needs to be done to get these countries up to Challenge Cup standards (something that has been touted quite a bit in the last week).

However, I would be super interested to see how the top MLR team would do against a Currie Cup Premier division team. I feel like after many attempts, they finally got a league going with consecutive years of momentum in the US.

The suggestion is the Georgians have been fielding somewhat more developmental sides in the Currie Cup than in the RESC. Assuming there are playoffs (that don't clash with the international window) we will likely see their full strength Black Lion squad. I expect them to at least get to the final.

For Zimbabwe and Kenya there is a huge gulf and the primary hope I think is that they can strengthen their set peice. If Namibia falter then Africa may fall miles behind Tier2 in Europe and the Americas (to the extent I'd question them having an auto qualification spot in addition to SA).